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282: Waubgeshig Rice's MOON OF THE CRUSTED SNOW - November 2024 Book Club


In our November Book Club episode, Jen and Ashley are discussing Moon of the Crusted Snow by Waubgeshig Rice (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm). Join Ashley and Jen as we explore this haunting post-apocalyptic novel set in a remote Anishinaabe community and as we share our thoughts and pairing recommendations.


As the outside world descends into chaos and communication cuts off, the community must grapple with the collapse of modern systems, rediscover traditional ways of life, and confront the arrival of unsettling outsiders. Filled with tension and resilience, Rice’s novel offers a compelling exploration of survival, identity, and the strength of community.


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Bookish Check-in

Ashley - Jeannette Walls’ Hang the Moon (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Jen - Pierce Brown’s Red Rising (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)


Our November Book Club Pick

Waubgeshig Rice's Moon of the Crusted Snow (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)


Our Pairings

Ashley - Cormac McCarthy's The Road (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Jen - Michael O’Donnell’s Above the Fire (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)


Unabridged Favorites

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Full Transcript


[00:00:00] Jen: Hey everybody. Welcome to Unabridged. Today is our November 2024 book club episode. We are focusing on Wabgishig Brice's Moon of the Crested Snow. Before we get started, I just want to remind everyone that we have a Patreon page if you are interested in helping to support the podcast. So there, if you're not a member, we have a lot of resources for sale individually.

[00:00:57] So we have different guides, resource guides, and discussion guides that you can purchase a la carte, and then you can also be a member. And if you join as a member, you get access to a lot of resources. Those do include some guides and lists, but also Patreon exclusive episodes. So I encourage you to check that out at patreon.com/unabridgedpod. All right. To begin our episode today, we're going to do our bookish check in. Ashley, what are you reading?

[00:01:27] Ashley: So one of the books I'm reading is Jeanette Walls' Hang the Moon. I was fortunate to get to see Walls talk recently in Greenville and she was at M Judson, which is one of our independent bookstores here. And she was just such a fascinating speaker. And she talks a lot about Hang the Moon. So I, that made me interested in listening and I'm listening to this one

[00:01:47] thanks to Libro FM. So, I'm also enjoying the audio of it. So this focuses on Sally Kincaid. Okay. And at the beginning, we kind of see Sally growing up, and And right away we see that she is a precocious child who has a lot of gumption is the word that comes to my mind. Like, she's just, very boisterous, but also like, a go getter who really wants to take action.

[00:02:17] And her dad is Duke Kincaid, and he is a pretty complicated character. And he has a lot of power in their very small rural Virginia community. This is set during Prohibition. And so he has a lot of power. He has a lot of swagger, something that comes to mind. And he just runs the show. But he has, there is a lot of mystery and Baggage related to Sally's mom who is dead.

[00:02:48] He has married another woman and they have a child together who is Sally's younger brother. And she loves her younger brother very much, but he's very different from her. Eddie is the younger brother and he's very different. He is very timid. He's kind of sickly. And His mom does not take well to anything about Sally, and so when Sally's quite young, we find out that there's this major incident, and the incident involves basically them kicking Sally out of the house and sending her off to live with her aunt, and so that happens, and then time passes, and we see Sally coming back much later as a young adult and trying to find her way, figure out how she can make a way for herself, how she can make money at a time that not many women have their own career.

[00:03:42] And so she's navigating all of that. Well also there's a lot happening with the prohibition itself. And so a lot of what people have done in that community is made moonshine. That's all been very fine. Like, there's a whole system there happening, but like, no one is taking advantage. Things are going fine.

[00:04:02] And then, all of these government interventions become closer and closer to their own community and a lot of things happen that I don't want to spoil that mean that suddenly it's impacting Sally's community a lot. And then she winds up having to figure out where she's going to fit into this situation: basically like whose side will she stand on and what will that mean for her?

[00:04:26] So I'm really enjoying it. I'm interested in the setting. I think that. Walls is really bringing to life what things feel like for a rural and economically depressed community at a time when there are a lot of things changing and and being imposed on them and like what that might look like and so yeah, I'm really enjoying it so far So again, that's Jeanette Walls' Hang the Moon. And that is her most recent.

[00:04:53] Jen: Yeah, she is so talented. I always think back to her memoir, The Glass Castle, and how powerful that was. And yeah, I think she's such a talented writer. So I...

[00:05:02] Ashley: What about you, Jen? What are you reading?

[00:05:04] Jen: I am reading, this is a reread for me actually. It is Pierce Brown's Red Rising. And this is the first book in a series that I always feel Should have gotten more attention than it did. And I'm not quite sure why it didn't, but wow, the rereading experience has just brought back everything I loved about the beginning of this story.

[00:05:25] I will say early on, I feel like it was presented as a YA text. And I... I don't know that I agree with that categorization. So I would say I consider this to be a series written for adults. It does start with someone who is a teenager. So the main character is Darrow, and there's some world building here.

[00:05:45] So I'll try not to get too deep into it, but it is important to understand that he is part of a cast called the Reds. And they are a people who work underground doing mining on Mars. And they are told by the people who run the society, who I will just say they're called the golds, but the coding here is very much, the reds are equivalent to Irish people, and the golds are equivalent to the Romans.

[00:06:17] And there's a lot of Roman coded stuff in here. So Darrow is part of the reds. They mine things. They are told that they are trying to make the world ready so that basically they can save society, and other people can come to live on Mars and that one day people will be able to live on the surface of Mars, the Reds included. So very early on Darrow is married to EO and they are teenagers. It's a world where the Reds do not live very long, and so I think it's hearkening back to this time when you got married very early because you knew you weren't going to live very long. Darrow is pretty, he doesn't like his life, but he's accepting of his life.

[00:06:54] He just thinks these are the way things are. Some of us that have to sacrifice for the good of everyone. And Eo is less willing to accept these stories, this information that has been fed to them basically.

[00:07:08] So early on something happens that makes Darrow start questioning everything he has been told and This is tough to talk about but I do just want to say he takes steps So that he is going to act as a gold in his life, he's going to masquerade as a gold in order to help overthrow this government that is keeping his people oppressed and to make a difference in Mars so that everyone understands the truth.

[00:07:44] Then what happens... It's like this really dark academia kind of thing where he and a hundred other young golds are fighting against each other. It's like a microcosm of a society where they're all in these different, you know, estates and they're trying to get to one big ruler who will have won this competition.

[00:08:08] And so, yeah, it's complicated. It's more complicated than that. I'm trying not to give spoilers that I would not have wanted someone to tell me, but there's a lot of underlying it. So anyway, it's just really brilliant in the way we see Darrow awakening to the possibility that everything he's been told his whole life has been false.

[00:08:27] And that the people who are there supposedly helping them to make the world safe for you are really just in it for themselves. And it's all about greed and selfishness and their own wealth and power, and that they are unhesitating in keeping an entire group of people oppressed. There's a whole hierarchy of different classes who are called by different colors.

[00:08:50] So there are silvers, and there are coppers and there are pinks. And you start to see the way they've set up this hierarchy to benefit themselves. So it is, it is really brilliant. It is worth reading. initially it was a trilogy and then there's sort of a second trilogy. So it, the series has gotten longer and the books have gotten longer, but I think this first one, if you just read this first one, you would be hooked on this series.

[00:09:14] So it is Pierce Brown's Red Rising. And it is just a series I feel like should get a lot more attention than it does. So

[00:09:22] Ashley: Oh, Jen, that has been recommended to me by several students. I know there are people in our Unabridged community who really love it also, and I still haven't read it, so I appreciate hearing more about it, and that is reminding me that I really need to get to that

[00:09:36] Jen: I will say it is dark, so proceed carefully because...

[00:09:39] Ashley: So maybe, maybe a spring or summer read.

[00:09:41] Jen: It is an unrelenting questioning of life and there's a lot of violence and, but it is really brilliant. So yeah, recommended, but with caution as to time of year and mental state.

[00:09:56] Ashley: There we go. Good thing to know. Ha ha.

[00:09:59] Jen: All right. Well, we are going to move on now to our book club discussion.

[00:10:02] So I'll just read a quick summary and then we'll get started.

[00:10:06] So this is the publisher's synopsis. With winter looming, a small northern Anishinaabe community goes dark. Cut off, people become passive and confused. Panic builds as the food supply dwindles. While the band, council, and a pocket of community members struggle to maintain order, an unexpected visitor arrives, escaping the crumbling society to the south.

[00:10:27] Soon after, others follow.

[00:10:29] I did just read the first paragraph because Ashley and I chatted and we don't feel like the second paragraph. It's really representative of the story. It also gives away a lot.

[00:10:38] So we'll, we'll just stop there. So with that said, Ashley, what were your overall impressions of Moon of the Crusted Snow?

[00:10:46] Ashley: Hmm. I found it really impactful. I felt like there is an unfurling of unease, and I think that the way that Rice makes that happen... I think there's a nice balance here between a calm community who has a sense of purpose, and love, and a central focus on caring for each other. There's that piece, and then there's this other piece of them growing more and more uneasy with the reality that maybe things are not just down for the weekend, or maybe it's not just them, them having no way to know that, but feeling a sense of unease. I also I'm not going to dwell on this because this is not the point of the episode, but I have to say that our community just went through the hurricane, or Hurricane Helene, and there were a lot of things that felt eerily reminiscent of that experience because our power was out. Our internet connection was very, very poor.

[00:12:01] The little bit, like I remember messaging with Jen and with other friends in Virginia, and they were telling me things that had happened in Western North Carolina that I had not begun to see because even though we were impacted by the storm, we were cut off because of the storm. And so then we didn't know the extent of the damage and the things that we're still right now seeing the impact of, and the loss of life and the like infrastructure that has been knocked down.

[00:12:27] And also, a lot of the stores, you know, we ran out of very basic supplies, right? So there was no gas, there was no ice, there were no, like, you had to pay cash at the stores. And so, there were places that couldn't open because their doors required the electricity. And so then you started to see, so tiny, tiny, example that is very different from what is unfurling in this post apocalyptic book, but I did think that it certainly made me very aware of, and I just feel like Rice really shows this, of like both the things that, of course, like we have a campstove, we have a grill, we have dry goods because we go camping, we have lanterns because we go camping.

[00:13:04] But if we didn't have those things, our family would have been not in total crisis, thank goodness, but immediately we would have had some very real needs that had to be met. And even with those supplies on hand, because we spend time outside, we still had to suddenly shift like everything we did, and shift it for quite a while.

[00:13:25] And so, I just don't want to spend a lot of time on that, but I did want to say that I think Rice really demonstrates that in a way that I think makes it real for the reader to think about how things change overnight when you have that. And then, again, in a community like this, they're better equipped.

[00:13:41] And so they're able to say, okay, these are the things we are going to do. But even so, if that stuff continues, what happens? And I think we really get a good look at that. What about you, Jen? What were overall impressions for you?

[00:13:52] Jen: Yeah, I really loved it. I was blown away. First of all, I think the writing style is just perfect for this text. It is so spare. And so at times it verges on objective in a way that really worked because I think you can feel the emotions roiling beneath the surface without having to have Rice write out every single one.

[00:14:16] I think the the book itself does such a good job of showing. I mean, I talk to my students all the time about showing not telling, and I think this does it, right? So we don't have to be told they were freaking out because obviously... And I think the other thing I really loved is something that you touched on is just the way that their isolation works for and against them.

[00:14:37] And I think the ways that some of them have held on to their Anishinaabe heritage has made them more equipped to survive. And yeah, they have still embraced some modern, I was going to say conveniences, but it's bigger than conveniences. Some modernity that makes their community function that when it's gone, it still hurts regardless of how, as you're saying, Ashley, like, yes, your family was prepared, but there were still things that were really, really challenging.

[00:15:09] I will say my family does. I mean, we would be... We would be in a lot of trouble because we do not have any of those things. So if this happened, yeah, I think anytime you read a book like this, you're like, okay, what would my family do in this situation? And we would, we would be having a really hard time.

[00:15:23] Ashley: I will say, for what it's worth, again, we don't have to talk about, we don't have to deconstruct all that. The experience that the Carolinas have gone through, but I will say, I mean, our community, we ate together every day in our neighborhood, you know, and so I do think for what it's worth, Jen, and to people listening who are suddenly like, Oh, no, what if this were to happen?

[00:15:42] One, there was a very clear precipitating event, but we were not forewarned about it. How severe it might be because no one knew and that's continuing to play out in Western North Carolina that a lot of what we're experiencing people would have taken precautions. If it had been Florida, people would have evacuated, but people did not evacuate because we could not have known that inland we're going to be hit the way that we were hit.

[00:16:02] And so that that does happen, right? But there was a precipitating event. Whereas here, as far as they know, there is no precipitating event, and that makes it all the more uncomfortable. But, for what it's worth, I did think something that I really took away was, like, the way that community does rise very quickly, and people do look out for each other, So, you know, for what that's worth, I think that we see that play out in the story, and certainly it is a part of their tradition as a First Nation.

[00:16:26] But I also think it's nice to see in communities that people do, at least in my, my neighborhood, I mean, people really do, you know, look out for each other, and suddenly people are outside all the time because there's no light in your house. And so, and so even during the day, it is lighter outside.

[00:16:42] And so that, those kinds of things are so interesting,

[00:16:45] Jen: Yeah. Wow. Those parallels are really striking. So yeah, I mean, I just loved it. I will say there is a sequel that I desperately wanted to pick up as soon as I was done with this, and I was like, no, I need to wait because I need to know exactly where this narrative stops and I don't know how soon after I did not read a synopsis.

[00:17:02] So I don't know how soon after this book it, it takes place, but I'm eager to read that because yeah, it really swept me away. I did not want to stop reading. I had such a sense of dread the whole time and just of wanting answers and wanting to know. And I love the way that Rice is able to make us feel that dread and that sense of not knowing that the characters are feeling, I think it's pretty masterful.

[00:17:26] So Ashley, what is one thing you want to highlight that really worked for you?

[00:17:31] Ashley: I think I really want to focus on Evan and Nicole's relationship, which I think is such a beautiful part of Rice's story. And I think why that worked so well for me was that we see these awful things happening and Evan is really at the heart of this, right? He's really having to... he becomes a caretaker of the dead.

[00:17:53] He's having to deal with bodies and things that, you know, as far as we see, he's never had to experience at all and certainly not beyond a momentary tragedy that he might have faced as a public worker in the past. He's never had to do it in this ongoing way that he's having to navigate.

[00:18:13] And yet I think what we see is them finding a way through their family structure and through the beliefs that they hold in their hearts to make this work. And I really loved that. And I also felt like we see the role of women. So I wanted to say that Nicole is like a secondary character, but a very important character I felt in the book.

[00:18:36] And then we see with Megan, who is a white person coming in, and a woman, who is in a very vulnerable place, but then she becomes a pivotal part of what happens at the end of the story. And so I thought all of that was just really well done. I liked how Rice wove in... And then Eileen, I guess. So really I want to talk about the role of women in the community... So Eileen as the oldest elder, and the way that everybody looks to her, that I just felt like Rice showed the role that a lot of the main characters in the tribe and the council and also in the story are men. But I think we saw the way that women are such an important part of their community, and the way that their role is valued and honored.

[00:19:21] And that all of that has to do with, I think, how things remain calm, and things remain community centered instead of immediately devolving into chaos and violence.

[00:19:34] Jen: Yeah, I agree completely. And I think you really see the way Scott's entrance into that changes the way the way those gender roles function so beautifully. And then this insertion of this outsider who treats women very differently. Yeah. I, I think you have to have that set up before and then see the way that's continuing through the, the what's the word I want?

[00:20:03] Not tragedy, but yeah, just, well, yeah, it is a tragedy to, to understand then what an effect he has and how that outsider's view changes things. Yeah,

[00:20:13] Ashley: Yeah, I think with women and also with violence, right, that, I mean, he comes toting his guns and that that becomes such a pivotal difference between them also is not a defense but instead an offense and a way to assert power and how we really see the different... like the cultural differences that Scott is demonstrating there, you know. What about you, Jen? What was something that worked for you?

[00:20:38] Jen: I think mine's along those same lines, that balancing of doing things for yourself versus doing things for the community. Taking care of your own versus taking care of everyone. Because Evan, we see at the beginning, before they know that there's going to be any sort of difficulty, how carefully he is planning to take care of his nuclear family.

[00:21:03] But also his parents and yeah, Nicole's parents. And so he already does have this community mindset, but he's taking care of his own, essentially. It's a larger group of his own, but his own. And because I knew a little bit going in, I just was like, Oh no, what is going to happen that he has been so careful in planning for the winter. And then you see people like his brother who are just floating through life and not worried about a thing because they know others will take care of them. It reminds me of that fable, the ant in the grasshopper, the ants in the grasshopper and the ants playing so carefully, and the grasshopper... Anyway, so I kept having flashbacks of that fable, but yeah, so I think then.

[00:21:47] Some of the people in the community who had been careful about planning could have said, Hey, sorry, but we planned ahead. You all are on your own. And yet seeing the community come together to take care of everyone is very moving. And I think very much speaks to the way that they have held on to that part of their Anishinaabe community.

[00:22:10] And then again, when Scott comes in, this sort of catalyst for this other way of thinking starts spinning out. And I think watching the way just that one sort of drop of selfishness. have such negative effects and can spread from person to person, but again, not to the people who had done the work.

[00:22:34] It's just, it is so human nature, right? I felt like it was so indicative of human nature that the people who were more dependent on others taking care of them were the ones who wanted more often, and who were least likely to think about the way their community was supposed to function. So I, I thought all of that was so complex.

[00:22:57] And so well done. I couldn't believe it was such a short novel to have so much depth in considering these characters as individuals, but also as part of a community, and just to have such fantastic world building so that we understood how they functioned before and after the event. So,

[00:23:15] Ashley: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that having those two different approaches, I mean, Scott, you want to just like push him, I mean, he is such a horrific... You can tell immediately, because we trust Evan, because we trust his instincts, that he's going to be a bad person. result for their community. And because we already love them and want them to be protected, you want him to be sent away, you know, but Rice needs him in that story to play out these different approaches and to show how individualistic people can be and selfish and then how community minded people can be.

[00:23:55] And yet, I think it's so interesting how, you know, he explores how alliances form and how you would think that everyone would reject Scott and his approach because of the strong communal bonds. And yet there are these tensions between people. And, you know, you think about Evan and his brother, Cam. Well, Cam is going to feel some judgment because of his lack of contributing, you know, and so all of that... So you can see how people might potentially be looking for a different approach because they don't know how to fit into the communal model.

[00:24:32] And if they don't know how, then, you know, maybe they're looking for some kind of validation. And so I thought, yeah, I just felt like all that was really powerfully explored.

[00:24:42] Jen: Yeah, Ashley, what's a quotation you would like to discuss?

[00:24:45] Ashley: I loved Eileen's character. I know I mentioned her before, and it just felt like, again, minor character, but very important role. And so I thought that the conversation that she had with Evan was just really, And so the context here is she's saying, they keep saying this English word and I don't know it and she's trying to figure it out, but it was apocalypse.

[00:25:06] And she's like, Oh, well we don't have, and you know, the Ojibwe community doesn't have this word because we don't think that way basically. And so she goes on to say, "Apocalypse. We've had that over and over, but we always survived. We're still here, and we'll still be here, even if the power and the radios don't come back on, and we never see any white people ever again."

[00:25:29] And so she kind of had gone through and talked about, you know, first when the First Nation was kicked off their own land. That was, you know, she's like, okay, well that would be an apocalypse, right? That was the end of our world. And then they came and they found us again and they took our children.

[00:25:43] And so that was another apocalypse. And so she kind of shows how like these, these times have happened before where the world did end, that really, the world as they knew it ended and yet they carried on. And so I think what I, there were a lot of things I loved about that, but one of the things that that was really powerful is that he's getting hope from the oldest person in their community.

[00:26:02] And so I think, again, that speaks to the value placed on elders and then the way that the older people in the community rise to meet that value. Whereas I feel like in a lot of communities, that would not play out that way. The oldest person would not be the one helping to keep the flames of hope alive.

[00:26:21] But I think it spoke to how she knows the honor that she is bestowed, and that she has earned. And she can see this like a bigger picture. She's been without power before. She's lived without all of these, you know, like you said, Jen, like this connection to modernity. She's lived without all those things and she knows that they'll be able to carry on.

[00:26:41] And so I thought just the whole scene was really powerful, but I also thought that it made a very convincing thesis for this community that could carry on at the end of the world as we know it. So yeah, I thought it was great.

[00:26:56] Jen: Yeah, I feel like mine's going to be very similar, but just that idea that they had been displaced before with intention. So the quotation I'll read is, "Their ancestors were displaced from their original homeland in the south, and the white people who forced them here had never intended for them to survive the collapse of the white man's modern systems further withered the Anishinaabe here, but they refused to wither completely, and a core of dedicated people had worked tirelessly to create their own settlement away from this town."

[00:27:24] And so I think that idea Yeah, that that cyclical nature of this story that they've had to survive these things before, and they do so in the face of sometimes people who are doing things very deliberately to kill them and to dissolve their community, and they talk often about the schools and the loss of language, the boarding schools, and the loss of language, and the eradication of community.

[00:27:54] And yet the idea that these elders have held on to those elements in defiance of those orders, I think is really powerful. Of course, this one is set in Canada, but we know that the same thing happened in the United States. I think this was this systematized attempt to eradicate these people and their defiance in the face of that,

[00:28:17] I think, I think it's just really powerful. And then you see how that plays out in this newest, you know, dot on the timeline of their existence. Yeah, it's really great.

[00:28:30] Ashley: Yeah, I think there were so many things that were really resonant in the book, But I I thought that that thread throughout was really powerful.

[00:28:37] Jen: So Ashley, what pairing do you want to offer? I see you have quite an array of choices here.

[00:28:43] Ashley: I struggled with this. First of all, I felt like it was a very unique novel, at least from everything that I have read, so I don't think that I have one that is exactly... Because again, I mean, all the things we talked about, right? I think that he both is honoring the Anishinaabe community that he is talking about, and he sets that in such a powerful way, but then he also, this is a post apocalyptic novel, right?

[00:29:08] So those two things are happening, and I haven't read something that does both of those so well. I think I'm going to go with Cormac McCarthy's The Road... I, Jen and I both. have deep felt love for Cormac McCarthy. We've talked about it occasionally on the podcast, probably not as much as we actually love him as a writer.

[00:29:27] But, you know, I love that book. I've taught it, I think it's really powerful. But I think the reason I wanted to share it here is because in McCarthy's The Road, It is about how people will carry themselves in the face of unthinkable circumstances. And that is the part, I think, that really connects to this,

[00:29:52] is basically, McCarthy's examining, okay, when the worst happens, then what? And how can we be people who still "carry the fire," is the phrase, in the road that the boy and his father are always holding on to. But it is this idea of like, we're going to be the people who carry the fire. We're the people who are going to continue to do the most right thing, or the next right thing, that we're able to do in the context of a world that has broken down.

[00:30:26] And I think that's what we see with Evan and Nicole and their children, and the way that they're trying to hold onto, and even bring back more fully, their heritage in the face of what they are beginning to understand really is the end of the world as we have known it. And what does that mean? You know, what does that look like?

[00:30:46] And so I feel like that... It's a very different book in a lot of ways. And it certainly does not speak to the Indigenous experience, and it doesn't talk about the First Nation. Like I, that was part that I thought that Rice does so beautifully there, is like exploring a community that again has already suffered these atrocities, that then is having to face this new reality.

[00:31:09] And they're both going to suffer because of it, but also they're better protected because of the prior atrocities because they've been protect, you know, kind of building up their own community, by having the cash and those things that they wouldn't have had if they hadn't already suffered so much.

[00:31:23] So, again, McCarthy's The Road doesn't do any of that. It's looking at a very, very tiny scope of a boy and his father on the road trying to find their way after the end of the world, after the apocalypse. And yet I think that the hope that people hold on to in unthinkable times is resonant in both of the books.

[00:31:47] And I also think the sparseness of the language, like Jen, what you were describing with Rice's writing and how powerful it is. I think we see that with McCarthy in The Road. And so I thought of it for that reason as well. But I, again, I think it is about like, how can we still be people who care about others and who are loving at our core, even when these things happen.

[00:32:11] And then there's, again, like Scott, in Rice's novel, there are instances where they come across other people, and then they see how those people have found ways to survive that are so different from the choices they've made. So I think we see some of that too, like the contrast. So again, that's Cormac McCarthy's The Road.

[00:32:30] I did think of a lot of books, but I do love that one, and I do think it's a good pairing.

[00:32:34] Jen: You know I love that pairing. Yes, I think that's perfect. Well, it's funny because the book I'm going to recommend is compared to The Road. And so I feel... Yeah, anyway, so this one is Michael O'Donnell's Above the Fire. And I listened to this one thanks to Libro FM, and just the synopsis of the book.

[00:32:56] So again, you don't have that First Nation's consideration, but there are a lot of parallels between this book and Moon of the Crusted Snow. So in this one, there is a father and son who The wife and mother has died. And so they are taking a hiking trip together just to get away. The son is quite young.

[00:33:19] I'm thinking he's like, it's been a little while since I've read this... I think he's like six or seven and they go to New Hampshire. And they're staying at these cabins where there is a sort of community elements. It's a national park, but there is like an activity center where they can go and spend time with other people.

[00:33:38] And while they are there, something happens to the south, and it becomes pretty clear... We don't have a lot of details, but it seems like there is a war happening. And yeah, so the father and the son... the father is trying, of course, to keep his son calm. He wants to keep his son safe. They're already suffering this horrible loss and he does not want to bring back this emotional turmoil that they have been trying to get away from.

[00:34:11] And he is desperately reaching out for a community of people that he can trust. But just as we see in Moon of the Crusted Snow, there is this sort of battle between people's... people's desire to be part of a community who can support each other and people looking out for themselves and, and the people they consider to be theirs.

[00:34:33] And I think that wrestling along, with this sense of isolation and being removed from what is actually happening, I feel like that's such a distinctive feeling. The only other book that I can think of that really reminded me of that is Rumaan Alam's Leave the World Behind, has that similar sense of isolation.

[00:34:52] What is going on? We know something's wrong, as readers, but we are just like the characters in the book in that we don't, we don't know. And so you're reacting without all of the information that you hope to have. In Above the Fire,they are on a mountain, and so there is this constant decision.

[00:35:10] Do we go down the mountain? how How important is it to have information? So, yeah, I think it's a great parallel read if you liked... Or liked is a weird word here. If you appreciated that sense of dread and of uncertainty and how, how do you deal with that again, if you're putting yourself in the place of the people in the midst of these circumstances, how would you deal with this?

[00:35:33] What decisions would you make? Do you agree with the decisions that they're making? So, so yeah, that is Michael O'Donnell's Above the Fire.

[00:35:41] Ashley: Wow, I hadn't heard of that, Jen. That sounds really good.

[00:35:44] Jen: Yeah. I don't know that I would have found it without Libro, but it was a good read. All right. Well, we're going to finish here our book club discussion with our bookish hearts. Ashley, what do you think?

[00:35:53] Ashley: Oh, five, five, five bookish hearts for me. What about you,

[00:35:56] Jen: Yeah, same. I feel like that's an easy one. I think that's probably pretty obvious from our discussion. It really blew me away.

[00:36:02] Ashley: It was a hard listen for me though, I will say. I don't know if I would have done better with print, but for sensitive listeners, I mean, like we talked about, I think there's a lot of hope in the book, but there is a pervasive sense of dread. And that is pretty heavy, so...

[00:36:18] Jen: I did do the print and so, yeah, sometimes I think that allows me to, I don't know. Sometimes I think print is a little easier, is a

[00:36:27] Ashley: For me, too, I think it dials down the emotional response. I mean, not that we shouldn't care, you know, so I think it's appropriate to care. I'm just mentioning that it was five bookish hearts for me, but, I mean, and honestly, with Cormac McCarthy's The Road, the last time I read it, I thought, I might never read this again.

[00:36:43] So, you know, I think it's a fantastic book, but after I had kids, I felt like, I, like I said, the last time I thought, that might be the last time I read that book, but... and I think it's fantastic. It's one of my favorite books. You know, one of the most impactful reads I've read, but, but yeah, lasting.

[00:36:58] These are lasting books that make you think about hard things. So,

[00:37:02] Jen: Yes, for sure. All right. Well, we will end our episode with our unabridged favorites. Ashley, what do you want to share?

[00:37:09] Ashley: I think I'm going to go with, I really like the company Ethique. I have been trying to figure out how to get rid of shampoo bottles and trying to find other alternatives for that, because that's kind of a single use item that you go through pretty rapidly. And I've tried a lot of different things and I've actually tried shampoo bars before.

[00:37:33] They are way more environmentally friendly, but it is a different hair washing experience. But the thing that I did not do when I had used them before that has helped me this time is Ethique is the company that they make a lot of very environmentally friendly things. They're out of New Zealand, and I love their products.

[00:37:50] What I didn't do with the shampoo bars before is use conditioner bar as well. And this time I'm doing both, and I'm very happy with it. So I just wanted to mention if other people are also evaluating their, you know, bathroom supplies and trying to think about trying different things. I love Ethique. I already use their, they call it a bliss bar, but it's like a facial bar.

[00:38:10] I use that all the time. It lasts for a very long time and you can remove makeup and wash your face at the same time. So it's like a single. You know... I like simple things, so it's a very simple thing, but then I found with the shampoo bars, trying it again with a conditioner bar also makes a big difference.

[00:38:30] So, Ethique is the company, and I think any other products are a great thing to try. I really like them. What about you, Jen? What's a favorite for you this month?

[00:38:38] Jen: I am going to highlight Shogun. And I feel like I... I was telling Ashley about this before and I'm like, it's not like it hasn't received praise. It just won a bunch of Emmys. I feel like it's on lots of people best of the year list already, but I will just reinforce it is brilliant. I did read James Clavel's novel back in high school.

[00:38:57] I don't remember if I watched the original adaptation starring richard Chamberlain, but I know enough about it to say that one of the things I appreciate about this adaptation is that very switch. So that the old version I think it was in the 80s centered Richard Chamberlain, the British guy who's coming into Japan. And it is his story and he is the hero and in this retelling There is a British guy who comes in and he's sort of our way into this community, but it is very much centering Japan's community and hierarchy and their way of doing things.

[00:39:34] And we certainly see a culture clash as he is coming to understand the very different ways that they think about A whole myriad of things. Right? And it is subtitled. So the people who are Japanese speak Japanese. And it is subtitled throughout. And then the character who Richard Chamberlain played is now played by Cosmo Jarvis.

[00:40:00] There is a part that is shared in English and there's a lot about translation and who's doing the translations.

[00:40:05] But yeah, it, it is absolutely brilliant and beautiful. There is going to be a second season. I have mixed feelings about that because it was originally designed as a limited series, so while I'm happy the story is continuing I felt it really wrapped up in a beautiful place. So we'll see. I'm sure I'll watch it.

[00:40:23] But I, I don't. Yeah. Sometimes it's nice to just have the one and done and it's a tight story, but I certainly... there is more story to tell for sure. So that is Shogun. I could not love it more.

[00:40:35] Ashley: I can't wait to watch that, yeah. After hearing all the praise, I'm like, well, we need to get around to this.

[00:40:40] Jen: It is really good. It's really, really good. All right, everyone. Well, thank you so much for listening to our discussion of Moon of the Crested Snow. We would love to know what you thought of this if you read along with us and we will talk to you soon. Thanks.


 

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