319: Olga Tokarczuk's Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead - October 2026 Book Club Pick
Have you read a book in translation for the Unabridged Reading Challenge yet? In this episode of the Unabridged Podcast, we’re discussing our October book club pick, Olga Tokarczuk’s Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm), translated by Antonia Lloyd-Jones. We share our reactions to this unusual literary mystery and explore its thought-provoking questions about humanity’s relationship with nature, justice, and whose voices are taken seriously. We also talk about the novel’s unreliable narrator, the power of chosen family, and what made this such a compelling book club pick.
In our pairings, Jen recommends Ann-Helén Laestadius’s Stolen (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm), and Ashley shares Stephen Graham Jones’s The Only Good Indians (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm). Join us for the conversation, and let us know what you thought of this unforgettable novel!
Bookish Check-in
Our October 2026 Book Club Pick
Our Pairings
Jen - Ann-Helén Laestadius’s Stolen (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm), translated by Rachel Willson-Broyles https://www.unabridgedpod.com/post/five-more-of-jen-s-favorite-reads-of-2024
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Full Transcript for Episode
[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the Unabridged Podcast. I'm Ashley.
[00:00:05] Jen: And this is Jen.
[00:00:06] Ashley: Join us for bookish episodes and check out our website, unabridgedpod.com, where you can find lots of new bookish content to grow your TBR.
[00:00:13] Jen: Sign up for our newsletter to find out more about online book discussions and upcoming events. Find us on Patreon for extra Unabridged content.
[00:00:21] Join us on Instagram and Facebook at unabridgedpod and message us there or see our website to get plugged into the Unabridged community. You want opinions about books? We've got 'em.
[00:00:35] Ashley: Hello everyone, and welcome to Unabridged. This is episode 319.
[00:00:41] We're discussing Olga Tokarczuk's Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead, which is our October 2026 book club pick. Before we get started today, I just wanted to mention that every time you shop on bookshop.org, you are supporting independent bookstores, and if you use our link, you are also supporting us.
[00:00:57] If you want to shop through our shop, it's bookshop.org/shop/unabridgedpod. And anything you purchase directly through that link, we have a lot of stuff there for recommendations, et cetera, so you can see those, but anything that you purchase from there, we get a small affiliate benefit from. So we appreciate you doing that, and we love to support bookshop.org
[00:01:18] Before we get into our book club discussion today, we are gonna share our bookish check-in. Jen, what are you reading?
[00:01:24] Jen: So I have just started Kelly Anderson's The Wild Beneath, and I am listening to this one thanks to Libro.fm. I picked it up because it was compared to Wild Dark Shore and The Time Traveler's Wife, both of which I enjoyed. I don't know if I see that yet. We'll see. But it is about a woman named Annie, and at the beginning it alternates between her present day, when she's living in the Pacific Northwest with her parents on a sailboat, and there has been a tsunam,i and her parents have not been found.
[00:02:01] This is several days after the tsunami. But she has found this man that no one around her knows who washes up on shore naked, and she finds him, and he doesn't seem to be able to talk. He seems to have lost his memory, and she is just trying to figure out where he came from. Periodically, you get flashbacks to when her parents were first together, when her mother was pregnant with her, and to Annie's childhood.
[00:02:32] So Annie was actually born in the ocean. Her dad is a doctor. Her mother is eccentric and is pretty much an outcast for a lot of people in the town that they sort of use as their stopping point, but she was determined that their child should be born in the ocean. And Annie's dad, while he might have his own ideas, always goes along with what her mom thinks.
[00:02:56] So she was born in the ocean. She learned to swim from a very young age, and there was a brief attempt to get her into school that did not go well, so basically she just lives with her parents on a sailboat. One way that her parents make money is they'll catch fish and then sell them to this woman named Rose, who lives on the shore.
[00:03:15] And Rose was helping this very wealthy family who own a timber company on the land, and the wife dies of breast cancer, and the dad basically lets her take care of the son, whose name is Evan. When Annie had her brief moment in school, Evan was the only kid who tried to stand up for her, and now, in his mourning, he doesn't really have anyone to stand up for him. So they take him on the sailboat for the summer, and he basically lives with Annie and her family for the summer, and they get really close. And you see that friendship, even though he does continue to go back to school during the year; in the summer,h e's sort of with them, and they grow up together until I've left off, and the flashbacks are occurring when they're 16.
[00:04:02] So Evan is in love with Annie, and you get the feeling, she doesn't say it as bluntly, that Annie also loves Evan. But she's also disturbed by what Evan's family does, and he is too. He's hoping to change things once he gets control of the timber company, but he's just not sure how to bring that about, and Annie is really frustrated by the way things happen.
[00:04:27] So the other thing I have to say ... Okay, a couple more things that I'm bringing together all of these points. So Annie's mom always knows exactly where Annie is. There's some sort of sense that she has. She obsessively swims. So not just that she enjoys it, but it's like something she has to do every day regardless of the weather; she swims.
[00:04:45] So that's weird. And the boy who, or the man who washed up on the shore, when he first washes up and sort of gains consciousness, even though he can't talk, there's a humming that Annie can hear that is very comforting to her, that is just sort of emanating from him. And the first word he says is walk, and so she calls him Walker.
[00:05:10] So I mean, I have some guesses about where the story is going, as you probably do from my description. We, we shall see. But it's described as a love triangle, and I can see that building up. I was really more intrigued by the cli-fi part of it all, so I'm hoping that will be explored more. I have a feeling that it may be more romance than cli-fi, which
[00:05:30] So we'll see. We'll see what happens. And how the fantastical elements that I feel bubbling beneath the surface, pun intended belatedly, yeah, how that all shakes out. So anyway, that is Kelly Anderson's The Wild Beneath.
[00:05:44] Ashley: That sounds interesting.
[00:05:46] But I can tell from your summary, I'm like, "Eh, I'll probably skip it."
[00:05:49] Jen: Yeah, we'll see.
[00:05:50] Ashley: The washing up on the shore, the naked body, unconscious,-those pieces, I think that's where the similarity is to Wild Dark Shore, but
[00:06:00] Jen: Yeah, we'll see. It definitely does not have the sort of solemn resonance of Wild Dark Shore that you felt immediately, so
[00:06:08] Ashley: Yeah. All right, what are you reading, Ashley?
[00:06:12] It's funny because I like this one fine, but I have a similar, like, meh feeling toward it. I'm reading Jamen Eves' Spellcaster, and this one is set in a residential school. Weatherstone. Well, it's a college.
[00:06:25] It's a college for witches and warlocks, and apparently they do not develop their magical abilities until 22. So it is a college university vibe, but it's like everybody is a bit older than, you know, traditionally in the US and in most places. And it is the youngest of, I think, four children, Paisley, who is going to Weatherstone.
[00:06:47] Her whole family has gone, and her father teaches there. Her family is very powerful in the witch and wizard community. And they... I think I've said witch and warlock and witch and wizard. I can't remember which one they use here. But anyway, it's got all the vibes. It's like dark academia. it is a good seasonal read Sorry to be negative, but it just feels like it just feels like a lot of other books, I guess.
[00:07:12] So like when I started it, I had thought... We were recording about witchy reads also, and I started this one thinking I might talk about it. And like, I like it. I'm enjoying it. It is compelling. It just feels a little like a lot of other books. Most of the witches in the community have an affinity toward an element, so like they're particular with water or air or that kind of thing.
[00:07:33] But particular, very powerful witches can touch all the elements, and they are called spell casters. And upon Paisley's arrival at the college, there is a spell caster who has unexpectedly arrived also, named Logan, and we come to understand that his family and her family have, like, a blood vendetta kind of thing.
[00:07:56] And so when her father discovers that he is going to be on campus, immediately he's like, "You must withdraw. We cannot have you here. It is not safe." Their family is out to get us, basically. And so then she's trying to convince her dad to let her stay, of course, because she does want to go to school. Oh, and I think I didn't say, but her whole family is super powerful and has all these great affinities, but she is really struggling to have any connection to magic.
[00:08:22] It's like her magic hasn't really come to fruition yet, and she feels like she's only there because her family's legacy has, like, let her in, basically, but she's worried she doesn't have any power essentially. And so she really wants to stay to try to figure out if she can develop her magic.
[00:08:36] And, meanwhile, there's this person who is very powerful and comes from this family that they... Apparently, their two families... She did not know this, because she was so young when it happened, but their two families had been really close, and then something tragic happened. And since then, they've had this, like, vendetta situation.
[00:08:52] So again, very compelling, also, very much like a lot of other stories. But I am really enjoying it. I think it's well done, and it's perfect for the season. So I'm gonna keep listening. Thanks to Libro.fm, and, like, it's a good audiobook. You know, it's good.
[00:09:07] It's a solid middle-of-the-road kind of pick. And so this is Jamen Eves' Spellcaster.
[00:09:12] Jen: Yeah, I love the proliferation of witchy books, but it does feel like now that that is happening, certain patterns are emerging often. And so finding one that falls outside of that pattern is... So yeah, you kind of have to search a little bit.
[00:09:28] Ashley: Yeah, in dark academia, there's like a certain thing, and then, like, this is definitely, like, the enemies-to-lovers kind of thing. I mean, it's, you know, kind of Romeo and Juliet, where, like, you know. So I feel like several pretty substantial tropes are getting hit on, but I mean, it's well done.
[00:09:41] You know, those are tropes for a reason, but
[00:09:43] Jen: Yes.
[00:09:44] Ashley: Anyway, today we're gonna be discussing Olga Tokarczuk's Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead, which is translated from Polish. Tokarczuk has won several awards, and this is the first one I've read of hers, but I'll definitely be interested to read more because she has quite a, quite a list of...
[00:10:03] Oh, I mean, she's won the Booker Award.
[00:10:04] Jen: The Nobel.
[00:10:05] Ashley: Nobel. The Nobel, right? Yeah. So she's won some really big awards, and so I know we were interested in reading this one. It's also a good pick for our Unabridged Pod Reading Challenge for a book in translation. I'm gonna start with a synopsis. " In a remote Polish village, Janina devotes the dark winter days to studying astrology, translating the poetry of William Blake, and taking care of the summer homes of wealthy Warsaw residents.
[00:10:31] Her reputation as a crank and a recluse is amplified by her not-so-secret preference for the company of animals over humans. Then a neighbor, Bigfoot, turns up dead. Soon, other bodies are discovered in increasingly strange circumstances. As suspicions mount, Janina inserts herself into the investigation, certain that she knows whodunit, if only anyone would pay her mind.
[00:10:53] A deeply satisfying thriller come fairy tale, Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead is a provocative exploration of the murky borderland between sanity and madness, justice and tradition, autonomy and fate. 'Whom do we deem sane?' it asks. 'Who is worthy of a voice?' We'll start with overall impressions.
[00:11:11] Jen, what's your overall impression of this one?
[00:11:14] Jen: So I finished this yesterday, and I will say I am still processing. I liked a lot of things about it,t and I definitely wanted to continue reading, ng and I thought Janina was a really compelling main character who- I'm gonna pause here and just remind everyone that there will be spoilers, so if you haven't read this and you don't wanna hear what happens, go ahead and pause now.
[00:11:37] Okay, an ultimately unreliable narrator, right? And I think having her as the point-of-view character makes it a really fascinating read. And I like the message of the book and, you know, the reverence for animals and the reverence for the wisdom that older women and older people, excuse me, can have.
[00:11:59] There was something that held me back from loving it. So I admired it a lot. I liked a lot of the messages. I would not say I unreservedly loved it, and I'm trying to put my finger on why. I think some of it is just the things ... Like, astrology is not something that I believe in, and so I felt like,e while of course the police should honor older women and their knowledge and what they're saying, I can also understand how she's writing a letter that says, "Because of astrology, I think the animals did it," is understandable that they may not pursue that line of thinking.
[00:12:36] And then, of course, we know that she did it and the animals didn't do it, so I don't know. That cynical part of me just kind of shuts down with a lot of that, so I realize that sounds quite negative. I really did enjoy it, and I think it asks interesting questions and makes interesting points, but I did not unreservedly love it.
[00:12:54] So how about you, Ashley?
[00:12:56] Ashley: Yeah, really similar. I thought it was compelling. I think it is thought-provoking. Like, I thought there were really insightful parts. I think the commentary about humanity and our relationship to nature-, I think all of that was really interesting and well-explored. It's been a long time since I've read something that has as unreliable a narrator as this book, and so I was remembering how unsettling it is when you are reading a book where you cannot trust the narrative being told.
[00:13:28] And I thought that was well done, well crafted. But I also ... Yeah, the astrology stuff, I thought a lot about that. I thought about how
[00:13:38] I was critical of it. I think we're supposed to be kind of critical.
[00:13:40] Jen: I think so.
[00:13:41] Ashley: But at the same time, like, that point was made about- was it St. Augustine who, like, outlawed astrology?
[00:13:47] Jen: I think so.
[00:13:49] Ashley: It made me even question the way that I dismiss something that actually could be very grounded and, like, is no more absurd than a lot of things that we actively believe in our society. And certainly I know people who I love and respect who study human design, which is something I hadn't even known about until a couple of years ago, but very much relies upon astrology.
[00:14:10] I mean, basically it looks a lot like what she does in the book. Like, it looks at your date, time of birth, location, all of those very precise things, and then where things are in the world and in the stars at that moment to determine exactly what they can know about you as a person. So I did think it was interesting to, like, read this where, like, it's not called human design in the book, but it is something that people very actively study, and that is becoming, it seems to me, like, more- I wouldn't say mainstream, but like, more like something that people are talking about and studying in a, you know, in an open way.
[00:14:44] and I question my own skepticism. So I was both, like, dismissive and also thought a lot of what she is saying does make some interesting points. And yet, as you said, Jen, she's blaming the animals, and I think she sees that she's a conduit for the animals; I think that's how she interprets it. But we know that she's committing these crimes, but then saying it's nature that's committing them.
[00:15:08] So then that calls into question anything else that she has to say otherwise. So yeah, I just thought all that was really interesting. So it, I think it prompted a lot of introspection that I think is powerful for the reader to be like, who's... I mean, exactly what it kind of said in the synopsis, which, speaking of which, if you're listening, I assume you've already read, or you don't care about spoilers, but I wish I had not read any synopsis prior because I did see something that was, like, talking about how the, like, crazy ending or something, and so then the whole time I'm like, "What's the ending gonna be?"
[00:15:36] And then that made me a lot more suspicious of her because of that. Anyway, yeah, so overall I was definitely intrigued. It wasn't my favorite book, and same, that I've been trying to wonder, like, why is that? I didn't enjoy it. And how much of it is translation? Like, how much of it am I, like, missing because of the translation, even though I think it was really well done; it s- it seems to me.
[00:15:55] Obviously, I don't read Polish, but it seemed to me it was a well-done translation. But I did wonder how much of it was that. But yeah, I mean, overall interesting.
[00:16:01] Jen: Yeah. Well, and how interesting... Like, I marked a bunch of sentences, and I thought there were some sentences, and as you said, there are some really eloquently stated deep philosophical ideas throughout the text that I thought, yeah, I kept pausing and, you know, marking those. And I think it's really interesting to have a translated book at which translation- in which translation plays a big part.
[00:16:22] The fact that she and Dizzy are translating together, I think, is interesting, and the way they are wrestling with how to have the best translation of Blake. Yeah, I think all of that is fascinating. Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, I feel like I have a lot of question marks swirling around my head right now.
[00:16:39] Ashley: Yes, I continue to have these questions also, and I just think there's a lot to think about in the book, which I do appreciate.
[00:16:45] But anyway, let's talk about what is one thing that worked for you, Jen?
[00:16:49] Jen: I really enjoyed the chosen family that she had built, and at the beginning she seemed so solitary, and certainly she had a contentious relationship with Bigfoot. But then you see that she has built this deep network of people who appreciate her wisdom and love her for who she is. And while they may not agree with everything she believes, they are willing to hear her out and to think about these ideas and to look for other sources that might reinforce them.
[00:17:26] So yeah, I thought that was a really heartwarming part of the novel, that you can see how her friends support her when she's been arrested, and then they come to pick her up the next day and she just sort of falls into their arms. I thought that was so beautiful, and you just see how they're there for her, and then ultimately they're the ones who call her on her crimes.
[00:17:47] And I thought that was a really powerful way to show that family is the ones who support you. Still, they're also the ones who bring you to account, and that they don't want her to continue killing people. At the same time, they understand her reverence for animals, and oh my gosh, the fact that those people killed her dogs, who, you know, for a long time, of course, and I think this is intentional, you think they're her children, and then you realize that they're her dogs, and then you realize, well, really, that's the same for her.
[00:18:13] And yeah, that whole line of thought, you know, they understand her devastation, but they're also telling her the truth that she cannot continue killing people in their village. And so yeah, I really... That chosen family part and all the complexities of it. And the way, I mean, the chosen family is just like the other family, right?
[00:18:32] That’s complicated, and you still have to nourish those bonds, but yeah, I really love that part, and I liked those characters a lot.
[00:18:41] Ashley: Yes, I thought when we get to know Dizzy and see that relationship, that's just so sweet, and then yeah, we kind of, come to know Oddball better and Good News, and I think that, as you said, that part is really sweet and makes it where we see that her life is a lot fuller than we first think it is, which I think is interesting, and again, like you said, I think intentional of her seeming so isolated and then us coming to understand that she's not quite as isolated as she seems.
[00:19:14] And yet at the same time in some ways she is really isolated, like, because of her internal world and the way that separates her, and her ailments. I think all of that is really interesting.
[00:19:23] Jen: Yeah, so Ashley, what worked for you?
[00:19:27] Ashley: I think something I really love is the exploration of us humans, our relationship to nature, and what that means. And I feel like while she is an unreliable narrator, we don't really agree with her path toward justice. We also can see the rationale that lets her get to the decisions that she makes, and I think that is just really well done.
[00:19:55] Like, that exploration of us as killers and how we as humans kill all the time and kill with indifference and that we have normalized something that is really barbaric. I think, like, all of that is just really well done and paints a picture of a different way of seeing the world that keeps her... like, literally haunts her and also, like, leads her toward making decisions that she sees as vigilance even though, in a lot of ways, it is a type of justice that I think most of us would think is not appropriate.
[00:20:31] It's also, like, I mean, like, it is the result of this thought process that she has. And so I think we really see that in a way that I just think is really interesting. And so yeah, I think that exploration of, like, what is our role in nature, and there were just so many passages I thought were really powerful about how we're just, like, a little speck in the spectrum of things and nothing that we do will ever come to pass in any real meaningful way.
[00:20:58] I think all of that is just really interestingly explored and raises a lot of questions about what it means to be human and what our responsibilities should be, which I thought were interesting.
[00:21:12] Jen: I really liked the part when Boros, when she finds him and, you know, at first she's quite suspicious of him, but then he teaches her about this insect that she has never noticed, and she starts to realize what a key part of the world that insect is and its role.
[00:21:27] Of course, it becomes a murder, part of another murder. But yeah, I thought she has such a hunger to understand the world around her, even the humblest parts of it, and I thought that was really beautiful. And just the way they interacted and the way he became part of her extended network of family also was really lovely.
[00:21:45] Yeah, that, I thought that was fun
[00:21:47] Ashley: And what you were saying also about her little girls, which, you know, as a reader, I am, like, terrified of what that story was going to come to be. And then when we learn, you know, the full story, I think, as you said, in a lot of ways it helps us understand her worldview- that is, how she sees the world, that those are her children, and also the cruelty.
[00:22:10] Like, the complete indifference to someone else's well-being that results in the killing of those dogs and the cruelty of that. And just, like, the happen stance cruelty, like complete unwillingness to understand any feeling that anyone else could have. And I think, you know, that helps us to see, again, even though we don't agree with her, it's, like, an understanding of, like, how awful these men are
[00:22:39] Jen: Yeah, when you find out that Bigfoot had heard her calling for her dogs and knew exactly what had happened to them, and just, yeah, it feels like it just revels in her sorrow and her grief. Yeah, it's ... You understand why she has such rage toward them.
[00:22:56] Ashley: Yeah
[00:22:57] I think, like,e also the way that everyone dismisses her is like it shows how she can do all these things that no one is stopping because no one can fathom that she has any kind of power or initiative or drive to do anything
[00:23:13] Jen: Right. And that's why it takes her friends to realize the truth, because they are the ones who see that she does have this agency to act in the world. Yeah
[00:23:22] Ashley: Oh, yeah. Well, let's talk about a quote. What's one quote that you wanna discuss?
[00:23:28] Jen: Oh, I really marked a bunch. Okay, so I think I am going to do- this is when she is talking to Good News and hearing her story about, yeah, just her life and why she couldn't go to school as planned and what had happened to her. And she says, "My lips were on the point of producing one of these impertinent 'Why don't you...?'
[00:23:49] when I bit my tongue. That's just what the color magazines do. Just for a moment, I'd wanted to be like them. They tell us what we failed to do, where we've messed up, what we've neglected. Ultimately, they set us on ourselves, filling us with self-contempt. So I didn't say a word. Other people's life stories are not a topic for debate."
[00:24:07] And wow, I just-- I stopped for a long time and thought about that one. I just thought, how often, instead of listening, do I try to fix something that is not mine to fix? That, yeah, do I take the time to just listen to the story and just hear it for what it is and not try to quibble with the details of how someone ended up there?
[00:24:28] And yeah, I just felt that one; I felt very convicted by that quote. But also, I thought, yeah, how much of our media is about this list of instructions for what we should be doing? I have definitely fallen prey to that. And whose decision is it that that's what we should be doing? Who is this they who's putting out this wisdom that I'm just accepting instead of moving forward as I think is the right way?
[00:24:54] So yeah, I felt like there were all kinds of parts in that quotation that really resonated with me. And ultimately, she settles on compassion and empathy, and I thought that is just so indicative of what is at the center of her worldview. I thought it was really beautiful.
[00:25:11] Yeah, I love her relationship with Goodnews as we get to know that better, and I agree that I thought a lot about that passage as well. Yeah. What's a quotation you wanna share, Ashley?
[00:25:21] Ashley: I mean, same, I marked it a lot. Like, again, l- I mean, as you said in the beginning, I can't say I wholeheartedly, like, loved everything about this book, but it is just so well-written, and there's so much to think about in it, and I think that is really powerful.
[00:25:34] I think I'm gonna go with a quote. This is kind of early on,n but it's at the center of a lot of the choices that she makes later on. So this is one of the many times she's trying to get them to write a report about what she knows. And again, we see this dismissal of everything that she knows or believes that she knows. And like we discussed, she also is unreliable, and some of the things she's saying do seem unhinged, basically.
[00:25:59] And so then we can see why people would question it. But this is in her internal thought, and she says, "As he was writing, I tried to slow down my thoughts, but they must have broken the speed limit by now and were racing in my head, somehow managing to pervade my body and my bloodstream as well.
[00:26:12] Yet paradoxically, from the feet, from the ground up, a strange calm was slowly spreading through me. It was a state I recognized, that same state of clarity, divine wrath, terrible and unstoppable. I could feel my legs itching and fire pouring into my blood from somewhere, and my blood flowing quickly, carrying this fire to my brain.
[00:26:32] And now my brain was glowing brightly. My fingertips were filling with fire, and so was my face, and it felt as if my entire body were being flooded by a bright aura, gently raising me upward, tearing me free from the ground." And I think that, to me, like, that is one of the many passages that really encapsulates the way that she feels that she is just carrying out divine justice, basically, and that she is acting on behalf of the natural world, which everyone has forgotten to care for.
[00:27:03] And we are slaughtering the natural world, and we're slaughtering these animals who we should be taking care of. Like she is enraged by the injustice of it all. And I think in that moment, again, that one was early on. That's on page 104, so you know, it's early on in the book really.
[00:27:20] But it shows that a kernel of wildfire rage that results in a lot of people dying, because she is so angry and determined to make right what she feels is wrong in the world.
[00:27:36] Jen: Yes. Yes, I did. So, this may seem irrelevant, but my dad was a hunter, and so there were many parts in here where I was thinking about that because he loved nature. I don't know anyone who loved nature as much as he did, and yet that was very much a part of his identity and how he had grown up. But I think when you see the way they go about it, and my dad.
[00:28:00] I don't want to gloss over everything, but yeah, he just had a very particular ... He did not believe in baiting deer. He did not ... You know, there were all of the ... He had these principles that he followed, and the way that he thought was the right way to do it. And yeah, so I was, like, defending my dad in my mind because you see even that moment when the, Oh my gosh, who is it? The, the reverend, yeah, that he is giving that service, and he seems so callous and just it's more about domination than about being a part of it. And so yeah, I w- I was having my own little mental quandary there that I was working through. But I thought that was really interesting, too, and the way the, the photo's taken of just this slew of animals just that they have just slaughtered, and it's not
.[00:28:50] Yeah. I think she does a great job of portraying the way that they are hunting, and I don't think Janina would see that as a good defense. I don't think she thinks anyone should be hunting ever at all, so I'm not saying she would be like, "Oh, Jen, your dad's fine." But I think, yeah, I was just thinking the way they do it is so horrific and really emphasizes their callousness
[00:29:12] Ashley: Yeah. I mean, I think it's something I wrestle with. Certainly, when I was younger I was, like, so anti-hunting, and then as I've gotten older I've thought, you know, if I can eat meat, then I need to be able to handle the fact that people hunt because it is certainly no worse than, and in many instances it is better than the way that we mass produce meat.
[00:29:31] And so yeah, I think there's definitely a lot to reckon with there. And it is interesting, the things that we have come to decide. And again, you know, many people don't have any kind of issue with hunting, but for those who do, there is a question of whether you consume meat; like, there is a question there about, like, what makes one thing okay and the other one not, if not just society normalizing things.
[00:29:54] And that very much is what the book is about, is, like, questioning, like, what have we normalized and why? And then, like, should it be normal?
[00:30:01] Jen: Yeah.
[00:30:03] Ashley: Well, let's talk about our pairings. Jen, what did you choose for a pairing?
[00:30:06] Jen: I am recommending it as a pairing by Ann-Helén Laestadius' Stolen, which is translated from Swedish by Rachel Wilson-Broyles. And I read this back in 2024. It was one of my favorite reads of that year, and Goodreads tells me that it is soon to be a Netflix film.
[00:30:26] So I don't know if that's come out yet or not. I've not seen it, if it has. There is a mystery thriller sort of element to it, and there's also this reverence for nature and for wisdom that falls outside the norm. So I read this for a challenge that asked me to read a book about colonization, and the main character in Stolen is part of the Sami culture.
[00:30:54] It starts with a little girl named Elsa who's nine, and her family raises reindeer. They're reindeer herders, and that is the center of their life, and it is very much under peril or under threat from the Swedish government and from Swedish citizens because this type of lifestyle requires a lot of land, and yeah, there's just a lot of disagreement about what priorities should be.
[00:31:22] Culture change is a part of that. Xenophobia is a part ... Yeah. Anyway, so Elsa is out and about one day and she sees a man kill, really in a horrible way, her reindeer, the one that has been given to her to raise. And she sees who it is, but she's nine, and he threatens her, and so she does not feel as if she can share the full truth with her family.
[00:31:48] And you see how much the event and her inability to share this truth impact her. And then the book does move forward to her as an adult when she has decided that she is going to fight back against this person in particular, but also about the mindset that would allow someone to not just kill these animals, but to torture them in the way that they do, and the man who killed her reindeer is not alone in that.
[00:32:16] I just found so many parallels between the two texts. On the surface, of course, they're both translated; both have cultures that are different. But yeah, I found that outsider status that she feels, both because of her gender and because of her culture, echoed Janina's, and I really felt that reverence for nature and that understanding of nature was a strong connecting thread as well.
[00:32:43] I listened to that one also, and the audio I thought was really compelling. And apparently, it's the first book in a trilogy, which I did not realize until I was looking it up on Goodreads again for the synopsis. I've not read the others, but I am interested in going back because I really liked it.
[00:32:57] So again, that is Ann-Helén Laestadius' Stolen.
[00:33:02] Ashley: Huh, Jenna hadn't heard anything about that one
[00:33:04] Jen: Yeah, it's really good. It really stuck with me. So yeah. What about you, Ashley? What's your pairing?
[00:33:12] Ashley: I'm really torn between two.
[00:33:14] Jen: So I'm- this is not gonna be my pairing, but I do wanna mention- Jen and I discussed- I don't remember when, but I'll link it in the show notes- Michael Bennett's Better the Blood- and that is a serial killer thriller, and I do feel it is a great connection to this one in a lot of ways.
[00:33:31] Ashley: But the one that I'm gonna go with, and if you haven't read that, I mean, it is a great read. It's in the Māori culture in New Zealand. It is very compelling. It asks really complicated questions. Some of them are echoed in this book; some of them are different questions. But I just feel, yeah, there are a lot of similarities.
[00:33:50] But the one I wanted to share is Stephen Graham Jones' The Only Good Indians. And we've talked about Jones before. I've shared this book. It's been years, but I love his work. I don't read much horror, but I usually make space for him because I just find that his books are so well done. Last year, if you have not listened, we discussed The Buffalo Hunter,
[00:34:13] fantastic, really good for discussion, so if you're looking, it's another really great seasonal read also. But anyway, this one, The Only Good Indians, is about four young men for whom this event happened when they were young hunters, and then time has passed, and now this stuff is coming to pass.
[00:34:35] And basically, it's that when they were hunting as very young hunters, they did not follow the ritualistic procedures that should've been in place for the elk that they were hunting. They are native hunters. There is a way to honor the land and honor the elk, and they do some things kind of, quote, unquote, "wrong" in this event, and it kind of haunts all of them that they have made this transgression in the past, that all of them are aware that they have made.
[00:35:06] And yet, a lot of time has passed, and they've all moved on with their lives, and then all of a sudden, revenge is coming to pass. And in this one, there are definitely, like, supernatural elements that are different from Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead. But I think this idea that there is a way that we should be with nature, when the scales are not balanced anymore, bad things come to pass, I think echoes in both books.
[00:35:37] And I think the idea that in a lot of ways we've totally lost that order; we see that in both books- and yet, in the Native culture that the young hunters are in, they know a better way to be and a better way to be at one with nature. And yet because they have, like, kind of violated those terms in this one instance, they are paying the price basically.
[00:35:58] And so it is very much a tale of, like, avenging the wrongs of the natural world. And like I said, there is a supernatural element that's quite different than this one, but I think that in a lot of ways Janina feels herself as being the instrument of the natural world who is bringing about the justice that has to be done to, like, reconcile what has happened in the past, and that is very much happening in The Only Good Indians as well.
[00:36:23] So I think there are some ways in which it is a very different book and is raising a lot of different questions, but I also feel like there is this idea of what is the role of humanity within the natural world that is at the center of both of those books and asks really important questions about that, and then what does it mean when that is not the way that it should be, and, like, who pays the price and how?
[00:36:49] And so I think you get into that in both of them. So, I mean, it's a really powerful read. It's something that has really stayed with me. You can't go wrong with reading it. I feel like it's... there's more of a horror element in that one than in Drive Your Plow. But I felt like it's just a really good...
[00:37:06] It's, if you like this one, I think there's a lot that you could get out of Stephen Graham Jones' The Only Good Indians.
[00:37:11] Jen: Yes. That is such a great pairing. I love that book. And yeah, agreed. I just think he's always asking great questions and complicated questions, and yeah, I appreciate that.
[00:37:22] Ashley: And I think that part's similar too, like the philosophical component of it where there's just a lot to consider. Well, we're gonna wrap up with our bookish hearts. How many bookish hearts, Jen?
[00:37:31] Jen: I think I'm gonna do four and a half. I can't quite get to five, and the more we talk about it, the more I appreciate it. So yeah, four and a half.
[00:37:38] Ashley: Yep. Four for me. Yeah. And it's, I mean, like I said, like there's so much to think about. I think I just didn't get the emotional resonance that I sometimes feel with books. But I felt like there was a lot to think about and discuss. Well, we're gonna end today with our Unabridged favorites. Jen, what is your favorite this month?
[00:37:55] Jen: So I have a show I'm going to recommend with caveats because it is one of the more crass shows I've ever watched in my life. But it is called Adults, I'm watching on Hulu, and it is about these young 20-somethings who, there are five of them, are all living in the same house. So Samir's parents are on this worldwide cruise that is going on for, I don't even know, how long, years.
[00:38:22] And so he invites his friends to come and live with him. So that's Billy, who's a girl, and they went to high school together, I think. I'm not sure I'm gonna get all of these right. But Billy, and then Issa and Anton, who he met at college, and then they met through each other and they became friends. And then Paul Baker, who was always called Paul Baker, and he is dating Issa, and he eventually comes to live with them.
[00:38:48] And several podcasts that I listen to started talking about it. I thought I'd give it a try, and yeah, I mean, parts of it are just disgusting, but it is so funny and I find myself laughing out loud. And I think that watching them wrestle with the way to be adults in the world is just ... Right now, I think that is a really complicated prospect, and so I think it's really fun/poignant to see them working through, you know, how do you…
[00:39:15] use your insurance at the hospital, and what does it mean if you're your friend's power of attorney? Really funny. So yeah, that is Adults, and I'm watching it on Hulu.
[00:39:26] Ashley: We are on the lookout for a new show, so I
[00:39:28] Jen: Yes. Ooh, I'll have to think. Okay. Yeah, how about you?
[00:39:31] What are you watching? Or not what are you watching? I assume it's a show. What's your favorite?
[00:39:36] Ashley: I was trying to think of a show, and I was like, "Man, now we're really struggling." Well, I will say, we... Have you watched The It Crowd, Jen?
[00:39:42] Jen: No.
[00:39:42] Ashley: Okay, so it's a British show, and there's, like, three seasons or maybe four. And we just re-watched that. I mean, I've probably watched it three times maybe,e or
[00:39:52] Jen: I've heard you talk about it before,
[00:39:53] Ashley: Yeah. So I won't say that one 'cause I feel like I've shared it before, but that is what we re-watched recently. But we were just on, like, the last episodes. We're like, "What are we gonna watch next?" I wanted to share about, I think it is said Yuka. It's Y-U-K-A. It's an app. It has a little, like, carrot emoji or icon.
[00:40:09] And I just recently discovered it, but I think it's been around a long time, so maybe people are familiar. But essentially, it is a way that you can just scan any... As far as I can tell, it's at least, like, food products and, like, beauty and wellness products, and it gives them a score out of 100 for how good they are.
[00:40:29] And it just ranks things like, things that are known, danger, you know, dangerous elements versus, like, mid-range, versus, like, good, relatively clean. And you just scan them, and it will show recommendations of other ones for any of the ones that are ranking really low. And it is, like, totally overwhelming to me because I already overthink a lot of things and, like, the last thing I need is more deliberation about what products to purchase. Also, it's, like, really helpful because it's like, oh, like, I have a newly 12-year-old daughter. She's doing a lot more, like, beauty and wellness things than she was before. And so, like, you know, if I can buy one detangler spray that's, like, significantly better for her and the environment than another one, like, I would prefer that.
[00:41:11] So I do think it's really helpful. I've just had to kind of take it in moderation and be like, "Okay, I don't have to solve every single item in our house right now," but I can just sort of gently look and see. So the free version, you can do all of these things. But apparently, if you subscribe, and they have very low subscription costs, then you can also, like, search by typing in stuff as well.
[00:41:34] And I mean, their mission is they're not paid by any brands or anything. Like, their mission is to just try to get brands to do cleaner stuff, to make cleaner products. And so, like, the whole purpose is to just try to elevate the ones that are cleaner and better for the environment, better for people, to try to fix, like, what we know are problems, but continue to put in things, which, you know, I align with.
[00:41:54] So again, I mean, I had never heard of it before, but I think it's been around. But it's Yuka, or Y-U-K-A. And I mean, I'm using the free version, and it is helping me, like, when I replace items to be like, "Oh, I'm gonna buy this face wash instead of this face wash next time." So
[00:42:09] Oh, very cool. That's, yeah, I haven't heard about that at all. That one.
[00:42:12] Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like under the radar. But anyway, it is a useful resource, so. Well, we hope you enjoyed our discussion of Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead. I was sorry that I didn't say the translator's name, so I'm just going to say that it was translated by Antonia Lloyd-Jones.
[00:42:29] And again, it was written by Olga Tokarczuk, who has also written Flights, right, Jen? Have
[00:42:36] Oh, yes. I have not. Okay, so Flights I do plan to read because, yeah, again, she has won, including the Nobel Prize, like quite a few awards, for her writing.
[00:42:45] We'd love to hear what you thought about the book. If you discussed it, you can share that @unabridgedpod with us, and we look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks for listening.
[00:42:56] Jen: Do you have comments or opinions about what you heard today? We'd love to hear them. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @unabridgedpod, or on the web at unabridgedpod.com for ways to support us. To get more involved, you can sign up for our newsletter, join a buddy read, or become an ambassador.
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