305: Rabih Alameddine's THE TRUE TRUE STORY OF RAJA THE GULLIBLE (AND HIS MOTHER) - January 2026 Book Club
- unabridgedpod
- 5 hours ago
- 31 min read
Have you ever finished a book you absolutely loved but found hard to explain?
In this episode of Unabridged, we’re discussing our January 2026 Book Club pick, National Book Award winner The True True Story of Raja the Gullible (and His Mother) by Rabih Alameddine (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm), which is brilliant in ways that are sometimes hard to articulate.
Before diving into the discussion, we start with a bookish check-in: Ashley shares about Vera Wong’s Guide to Snooping (on a Dead Man) by Jesse Q. Sutanto (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm), and Jen talks about Life on a Little-Known Planet: Dispatches from a Changing World by Elizabeth Kolbert (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm).
From there, we dig into Raja the Gullible, talking about Raja’s unforgettable narrative voice, the novel’s nonlinear structure, and the way humor and tragedy coexist on the page. We explore Raja’s complicated, tender relationship with his mother, the impact of memory and trauma across decades, and how personal stories are shaped by larger national and historical forces. We also share book pairings, give this one a resounding five bookish hearts, and wrap up with a couple of Unabridged favorites.
If you’re participating in the 2026 Unabridged Reading Challenge, this book fulfills the category “book from an awards list.” If you read this one, we’d love to hear what you thought!
Bookish Check-in
Ashley - Vera Wong’s Guide to Snooping (on a Dead Man) by Jesse Q. Sutanto (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)
Jen - Life on a Little-Known Planet: Dispatches from a Changing World by Elizabeth Kolbert (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)
Our January Book Club Pick
The True True Story of Raja the Gullible (and His Mother) by Rabih Alameddine (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)
Our Pairings
Mentioned in Episode
Unabridged Favorites
Listen in to find out what our favorites are.
(A note to our readers: click on the hashtags above to see our other blog posts with the same hashtag.)
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Full Transcript for Episode
[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the Unabridged Podcast. I'm Ashley,
[00:00:05] Jen: And this is Jen.
[00:00:06] Ashley: Join us for bookish episodes and check out our website unabridgedpod.com, where you can find lots of new bookish content to grow your TBR.
[00:00:13] Jen: Sign up for our newsletter to find out more about online book discussions and upcoming events.
[00:00:18] Find us on Patreon for extra Unabridged content. Join us on Instagram and Facebook @unabridgedpod and message us there or see our website to get plugged into the Unabridged community. You want opinions about books? We've got 'em.
[00:00:35] He,y everyone. Welcome to Unabridged. This is episode 305, and this is our January 20, 26 book club discussion of Rabih Alameddine, The True Story of Raja the Gullible (and His Mother), which I will not be saying the full title very many times, so I'll just say that for now. Alright, to get started, we're going to do our bookish check-in.
[00:00:58] Ashley, what are you reading?
[00:01:00] Ashley: I just started this, but longtime listeners will not be surprised. I'm reading this. This is Jesse Q. Sutanto, Vera Wong's Guide to Snooping (on a Dead Man). This is the second in the Vera Wong series, and I have read many, though not all, of Jesse Q.Sutanto's work. So, all I've heard so far, I'm listening to this one on audio at the moment.
[00:01:21] I did just get my library because it's what prompted me to start it. So I'll probably switch to reading it on the Libby app, but anyway, and right at the beginning, Vera is just. Okay, I'm not gonna say much 'cause I don't wanna spoil anything from Book one.
[00:01:35] It is helpful. I can't tell for sure yet, but like, definitely all the characters and stuff come from book one, and you would want to have heard that story first, right? Jen,
[00:01:43] Jen: Yes, I would agree.
[00:01:44] Ashley: Sequence is important. Okay. So I don't wanna say anything to spoil, but basically all of the characters we love from book one show up right at the beginning of book two.
[00:01:53] And also Vera, who likes to think of herself as very savvy, gets this phone call. And on the phone call, it's early in the morning, and the phone call is from her credit card company, and they're saying like, Oh my gosh, there's been this 4,000 something dollars charge on your card from a Target in some location.
[00:02:13] We just wanted to confirm whether that was you. And she's like, oh, no, that's not me. Please cancel the card. That's not mine. And they're like, okay, well, we need you to file a police report, so please stay on the line, a nd I'm gonna transfer you to this other number. And they will help you file the report.
[00:02:30] And so then she transfers over, and she tells the police officer all this information. And then a little bit late,r she's like, Oh, I didn't tell them whatever other thing. And so I'd better contact one of the other people in the story, who is Officer Gray from Book One. She is playing an important role here.
[00:02:51] I don't wanna give any spoilers, but anyway, she shows up back in this story, and Vera contacts her and says, Hey, can you look up this person I talked to on the phone? I need to give them whatever additional information. Well, immediately Officer Gray is like My gosh, something is wrong. And so, you know what is clear.
[00:03:10] to us as the reader. A scam is exactly, unfortunately, what like happens in real life to older people all the time, and so then Vera, who again considers herself really savvy, is like, oh my gosh. You know, and of course, the officer Gray is like, Selena is like, No one's ever gonna ask you for that information on the phone.
[00:03:28] I mean, it's all the things that, again, I think we know, but it is happening a lot. So there's definitely still this high-pressure situation of people taking advantage and scamming people, in exactly the way that Vera's getting scammed. So, they file a real police report and try to put on the information that, you know, she could be susceptible to identity theft because she's revealed all this information to what was obviously a scam.
[00:03:51] That is right there at the beginning. And then the next thing that's happening is they're all getting together and having this huge meal. She's making all this food. And so, we're getting to see all of the people that I love so much from book one. Gather together at the beginning of book two.
[00:04:06] So I really don't have much to say except that right away, I was just right back in the heart of what I love about the Vera Wong series. And you know, Jen and I discussed that one, the book one, I don't remember when, but we have done it for a book club. And I was like, Jen, you've gotta read this because I just love this.
[00:04:22] But I think like, what I love about it and what I'm excited to get back to is this idea of. The way we can make our own family, and how people who are connecting intergenerationally just have such a more vibrant and rich experience. And so I just love seeing that, in this book. And right away, it's like right back to that.
[00:04:42] So I'm really excited. I think this is a great time to be reading this one. So again, that's Jesse Q. Sutanto’s Vera Wong's Guide to Snooping (on a Dead Man).
[00:04:51] Jen: Yay. I was sitting over here, barely able to contain my glee. The fact that you're reading it because I loved it, so I might even like it more than the first book. I'm not sure, but I thought it was so, so good.
[00:05:02] Ashley: I'm so excited.
[00:05:03] Jen: Just such a treasure.
[00:05:05] Ashley: I just love her. And I think like what Sutanto does so well with Vera, and she's done it in her other books as well, is like crafting these characters who are like laugh out loud, funny, and I mean absurd to a certain extent, but not making fun. She's never making fun. And I think like that line of being just hilarious over the top.
[00:05:25] But also believable and kind, like a compassionate view of a character like Vera, I think, is just so powerful. And in fact, right at the beginning, there was this whole thing about she's only 6,1, and she's always talking about how old she is. And I remember in book one thinking, Why is she saying how old she is?
[00:05:43] So I thought it was interesting right at the beginning she's saying that and the officer is like 61 not the fake, the scammer is like 61 is not old, but she mentions how in Chinese culture it's such an honor to be elderly, that in a lot of ways she's like embodying it because of the great things that come with it.
[00:06:04] And so I thought like that, juxtaposition of like, what does it mean to be elderly, and like, what are the benefits or disadvantages of that? I think that comes to the forefront right at the beginning in a way that's really interesting. And so, yeah, I just, I love her, and I'm excited to keep going.
[00:06:20] Jen: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Ashley: What about you, Jen? What are, I could talk about Vera Wong all day, frankly, but we gotta move on. What are you reading?
[00:06:27] Jen: I am reading Elizabeth Kolbert's Life on a Little-Known Planet: Dispatches from a Changing World. So Kolbert is one of my favorite writers. She focuses on climate change and the environment, and I just think she's brilliant. So this one is a collection of essays. So far, all of them have been published elsewhere.
[00:06:48] She writes for the New Yorker, so I'm anticipating that all of them have been published elsewhere, but I have not read them before. And I just think she both writes about something that I consider to be very important, but she does so in a way that she does these deep dives into places and people that I think are just beautiful.
[00:07:06] S,o just looking at the table of contents, the very first article was about whether, so we all acknowledge, I think that whales have a language, but we cannot understand it. And so this scientist is looking at whether AI can start to allow us to talk, maybe not talk with whales, but understand what they are saying and communicate.
[00:07:30] She has one about an entomologist, David Wagner, who is obsessed with caterpillars to the extent that it ruined his marriage. But anyway, and. Because they are the key to understanding so many other things. There's one about the colony collapse disorder that is affecting honeybees. There's one about Miami and how long it's going to be before it will be underwater.
[00:07:56] And so all of them are just told in this way that honors the people who are trying to solve problems and trying to increase our understanding of the natural world because they view that as the best way to make people want to save it or to act to save it. And yeah, I mean. It's hard to summarize because every essay is about something a little bit different, but it does all come together just to help us understand our world a little more.
[00:08:23] So I highly recommend Kolbert's work. This one is just as good as all of her other books. It is Life on a Little-Known Planet: Dispatches from a Changing World.
[00:08:33] Ashley: Wow, Jen, I hadn't heard of that. And it sounds totally fascinating, and I hadn't heard the whale stuff before, but that's fascinating, and it does make sense that, again, if you applied algorithms and pattern study to something. Of course, you could decipher it. It's our human inability to pick up those patterns that we can't make sense of.
[00:08:53] Because I mean, you think like, yeah, that is fascinating, 'cause like language is a code, you know? And like the way that we've learned to interpret other people's languages is through somebody helping you know what that code is. So all you need is a guide to help with the code. Yeah, that's interesting.
[00:09:08] And like the thought of that, then of course spans to a lot of other animals as well. How interesting.
[00:09:14] Jen: Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. Have you read Kolbert before?
[00:09:17] Ashley: No.
[00:09:18] Jen: Oh, I think you would love her.
[00:09:19] Ashley: Okay.
[00:09:20] Jen: So she has one called The Sixth Extinction, and it's about the Anthropocene. So the way that humans have started to alter. The planet and climate, and all of hers, I will say, are in kind of bite-sized chapters.
[00:09:34] So even if it's not straightforwardly a collection of essays, the chapters are ones you can dip in and out of. And so it might all be on a common theme, but yeah,
[00:09:44] She's really accessible.
[00:09:44] Ashley: And I do remember, I remember when that one came out, but I didn't remember that was that she was the author. But yeah, I definitely wanna try that. That sounds great.
[00:09:52] Jen: All right, well, we are going to transition to our main discussion, talking about The True True Story of Raja the Gullible (and His Mother).
[00:09:59] Here's a synopsis from the publisher: In a tiny Beirut apartment, 63-year-old Raja and his mother live side by side, a beloved high school philosophy teacher and, quote, the neighborhood homosexual. Raja relishes books, meditative walks, order, and solitude. Zalfa. His octogenarian mother views her son's desire for privacy as a personal affront.
[00:10:22] She demands to know every detail of Raja's work life and love. Life boundaries be damned. When Raja receives an invite to a writing residency in America, the timing couldn't be better. It arrives on the heels of a series of personal and national disasters that have left Raja longing for peace and quiet away from his mother and the heartache of Lebanon.
[00:10:41] But what at first seems a stroke of good fortune soon leads Raja to recount and relive the very disasters and past betrayals he wishes to forget. Told in Raja's irresistible and wickedly funny voice, the novel dances across six decades to tell the unforgettable story of a singular life and its absurdities, a tale of mistakes, self-discovery, trauma, and maybe even forgiveness.
[00:11:04] Above all, The True True Story of Raja the Gullible (and His Mother) is a wildly unique and sparkling celebration of love. All right, Ashley, for our main discussion, we'll start as always, with overall impressions. What did you think of this one?
[00:11:18] Ashley: Before we started recording, Jen and I were like, This book is brilliant and also might be hard to discuss. I loved it. I think what is shining throughout is Raja himself, and just the way that,
[00:11:35] Alameddine creates Raja's voice and shows, like just how complex he is over this huge amount of time.
[00:11:45] I mean, I found it fascinating, so I think yes, like. It is a brilliant book. I loved him. So overall, you know, I loved him. I loved his relationship with his mother, which is so complicated and tender and also hilarious and kind of terrible, all those things. And then I also loved the narrative structure that I think was just.
[00:12:12] Such an interesting way of looking at how our past continues to impact our present and the way that the story unfolds, like really forces us as the readers to think through that and confront that in interesting ways. What about you, Jen?
[00:12:28] Jen: Yeah, I would agree with all of that. I mean, the substance of it is so compelling and so important, and yet it is the style for me as well. That voice and that structure that are so compelling, that feeling that this is a story he's telling. I just, oh, I loved it so much. And I think those books are really hard to describe. I love them so much, and yet they are hard to talk about, and sometimes I find myself not writing reviews of books that I loved because I'm not sure how to
[00:12:59] encapsulate it, but I marked something with a book art on almost every page of this book, because I just thought the writing was so vibrant and so distinctive. And as you said, it gave such a sense of his personality and the way he wants to be seen versus the way he really is, and I loved his relationship with his mother.
[00:13:21] I wanted his brother to have karma revisit him many, many times. I just felt such strong reactions to so many of the characters because he was such a vivid person to me, and I think that's a real mark of something special.
[00:13:37] This one did win the National Book Award, and I can totally see why, because
[00:13:42] It's been a while since I've read something like this. Thee pairing was difficult for me because of that.
[00:13:46] So, Ashley, what's one thing that works for you?
[00:13:51] Ashley: I think I wanna delve into the non-linear structure of the novel, and I feel like what really worked for me there is because it is non-linear and because all of the things that happen are informed by this. Then rambling uncovering of this thing, he's like, I didn't wanna tell you about. It's also his interaction with the reader that I think is something I haven't read in a long time, of just this like very personal connection to the telling of the story itself.
[00:14:23] And so, you know, I think he is like, oh, I didn't wanna tell you, or like I thought of the part where he was like, we didn't have sex. And then he is like, That was a lie.
[00:14:33] Jen: Yeah.
[00:14:33] Ashley: Of course, we had sex. You know, and then he is like, you know, we were young men, during war times, when you could die at any moment.
[00:14:39]You know, and he was like, but I told him I wouldn't tell, so I'm not gonna tell, but it's been a long time. So I think it's fine, but it's like stuff like that that I think is the exploration of memory and trauma and how those things affect us so greatly. I didn't choose this in my pairing, but the thing that really came to my mind a lot was Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five.
[00:14:59] Jen: Oh, yeah.
[00:15:00] Ashley: And I haven't read that book in a long time, but that kept coming to my mind because it's the last time I read a book that had that same ability to detach events from our own psyche. I'm just like, we are the person we are because of the events that happened to us. And yet, you know, I've come unstuck in time was the thing that kept coming up in my mind, which is from Slaughterhouse Five.
[00:15:22] But I think we see that in Raja, the way that something happens in the moment of whichever moment we're looking at. But it is taking him back to these other moments that then he's trying to work his way through and the telling of his own story, I mean. I just think that's fascinating. There are so many things I could say worked for me.
[00:15:40] I also felt unprepared to talk about it because I listened to this on audio, and the narration was outstanding. So I'm really glad, and on the one hand, but then on the other hand, I'm like, oh, I need to read this. I need to read the print. I need to read it again. Because I think there's just so much going on that it's complex to unpack.
[00:15:55] That's one of the things I could talk about that worked for me that I just think is so interesting, so different. And that also pulls us into the personal and the way that the global, so the things happening in Lebanon in this situation throughout history over this span of decades, the way that that impacts the personal, I think we get a lot of that too.
[00:16:14] Jen: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:14] Ashley: What about you, Jen?
[00:16:16] Jen: Yeah, that was really brilliantly done, and I think confronting it as a narrative is such a key part of it. And the way he chooses to tell the story. I mean, even the fact that it's the true story, right? And so there's something in that doubling that acknowledges that, that there may be something not so true about it as well.
[00:16:35] Right? And I love an unreliable narrator. And so I think, yeah, all of that comes together. And it's so funny and so tragic at the same time. There were, I mean, I literally laughed out loud at multiple parts, and yet there are these horrible things happening. As you said, just that awareness of the life he's looking back on and the ways he's shaping his memory of it, and you have to acknowledge the tragedy, but he's trying to do so with such good humor.
[00:17:06]
[00:17:06] Ashley: Yeah. I think his, as you touched on this earlier, about his relationship with the students. And I mean, we see that with his relationship with his mom, his relationship with his aunt, who comes, you know, like all of that. We see it with other people, too, but I think the idea of them as his brats and the ending scene I thought was really beautiful.
[00:17:24] Of how, like his mother knew, even in her death, she knew exactly what he needed but wouldn't accept. And so we see that unpacking of him having to like confront the fact that all these students from all these years absolutely adore him, and they're coming to like pay their respects to him and to his family and the life that he has made possible for them.
[00:17:45] And he's just like still wanting to be this like unapproachable, gruff, strictly professional person. And then he kept being like, and I just kept weeping, and it was intolerable. And then this more absurd thing happened, and I just, it was so humiliating, like, and I think like it's him wanting to be this one, like you said, Jen, he's wanting to be this one thing, but then the thing that he is is so beautifu,l and it is the thing that everyone around him loves so much.
[00:18:18] And yet he keeps, even in that last scene, striving to be this other thing. And so I just think like that is really interesting and such a human thing to want to be this one appearance to everyone, and yet the thing that you really are, instead of that appearance, is what everyone loves.
[00:18:37] Yeah, it was interesting.
[00:18:38] What about you, Jen?
[00:18:39] What was one thing that worked for you?
[00:18:41] Jen: I know, part of me, I was thinking about that teaching thing. I also just think, I mean, she's in the title, right? That relationship between Raja and his mother, and he's always saying that Farouk is the chosen son and that he was the favorite. And yet, of course, Raja is, of course, he is. And of course, see his life and his mother's life are so intertwined, and I think it's interesting.
[00:19:04] I just thought of this now, but I do think he processed so much of his life through his relationship with her that it makes sense that after her death, that is when he decides to tell the story because he has to do it in a different way than he has before. Because before. I mean, even after he was kidnapped, and he had that very complicated relationship with
[00:19:28] Booty. He told his mother all of that. And in this particular society at that time, you would think that would be something that he would not tell anyone. And yet their relationship. And it's so important to him. It's almost like she's another part of himself.
[00:19:48] And so he's trying to tell it to himself. And I think watching Raja evolve because of how his mother supports him so beautifully. With such understanding of who he truly is, he is a character. He changes. When he ends up in Texas and realizes that booty is there, the person he was before would not have been able to be that strong to just say, No, I'm not doing this.
[00:20:17] And I just thought. That is because of his mom. That is because of the relationship and the way that they have grown together, though I think, of course, we see the change in Raja Moore. But yeah, it's just, it's such a beautiful relationship. I mean, that table that he saved for her that does not fit in his apartment, that is such a great symbol of their relationship that it never quite fits.
[00:20:43] And yet it is the center of his world and his life. And sometimes it is really inconvenient, but he would never give it up. He would never give it up. And so I just really love the way they are together. I mean, the fact that her response to him is so often, F your mother is so funny. You can just picture this little 80-year-old woman saying that all the time to her son. Anyway, I just really loved them together.
[00:21:13] Ashley: Yes. They were so unexpectedly crass, and that was hilarious. And yes, like going back to that last, the last scene and the last line, and he says it again, you know? And I just think like, yes. It just sums up how I love what you said about the table, and I think you're absolutely right that we see that throughout.
[00:21:33] Watch people try to get their way around it. It's, you know, they can't scoot by. It's unavoidable and yet necessary. Yeah, I think it's beautiful.
[00:21:43] Jen: All right. Well, let's talk about a quote. What quotation did you choose, Ashley?
[00:21:49] Ashley: Oh man. I think there were so many I could have picked, but this is again, it's the highlighting of all the different things that I think were so impactful. And what Jen pointed out to you is like. You know, he has this very traumatic kidnapping experience that is also transformative and in some ways opens up his world even though it is terrible.
[00:22:11] And so, you know, really complicated, right? So I think we see that he's gone through all these things. But anyway, then there was the explosion that happened in Lebanon and in Beirut. And so he's describing what that was like in that moment for people in the city, and this is the part where he's thinking back to the wrestler.
[00:22:30] 'Cause I feel like the quote's so long, I should probably shorten it.
[00:22:33] Ashley: So, this is the part where they've been sweeping, so the explosion happens, and then immediately he and other people start trying to clean up. And it's both futile and also feels really necessary. And he's remembering this time back, where a wrestler had said no MAs with like wanting to stop.
[00:22:52] And he goes on to say in the context, he's like, "I have never been a wrestler, but I can imagine what it feels like to be pummeled and pummeled and pummeled and just say anymore. So this is the quote he says, 40 years later, on the hood of a Mercedes weighed down by a chunk of concrete on its roof. I was whispering No mas.
[00:23:09] No mas. No mas. The solid buildings of the neighborhood, forcibly divested of glass and slabs and facades, felt as if they were taking their last breaths. As if they were the trees after a forest fire had passed through. The blast had happened the day before, yet dust danced everywhere, refusing to settle.
[00:23:29] The structures continued to crumble. An aluminum frame fell from some floor up above, after which a half-burnt curtain fell down. Landing not two meters away from my throne. Shards and scraps and blood covered everything. My gaze relinquished, one atrocity for another, one horror for another, and people.
[00:23:49] People like me who came to see standing in groups or not together, but all alone. We were shocked, horrified, too stunned to do anything but gawk. Ours is the tale of unremitting death, violence, and destruction narrated with apathy." I mean, this book, I'm like, it was passages like those that certainly won the National Book Award.
[00:24:14] I think it is. The ability to take a profoundly sweeping tragedy, but also look at it at such a personal level, and then to talk about it through the passage of time. And so I think while this is very much the story of Raja and his mother, like you were saying, Jen, like it couldn't be more about family and about individual self, and yet it's also the story of Lebanon, and it's the story of decades and decades of tragedy and upheaval and chaos and crumble. Then it's trying to pick up over and over again from those things. And I mean, Raja has chosen to stay, whereas a lot of other people have left. Andd I mean that comes up, you know, when he goes to America, it's like this idea of like, he's finally like, oh, maybe I will go somewhere.
[00:25:03] Maybe I will do something different, and then, as you said, Jen, it wasn't what he expected, and immediately he regroups. And we haven't talked about Madame Taweel at all, but like her whole thing, her entrance into the story, her goons who are always with her. I mean, all of that. I mean, I just love it.
[00:25:22] Like, she is a gangster lord. She does all these amazing things. She makes things happen. But I think right here we see that even though. He and his mother have structures that he wants to reject, but that keep him protected, functioning in a society that has fallen apart, where the banks have collapsed, all of that, but then something like this happens, and he's like, all of a sudden, he's like, I can't anymore.
[00:25:46] Like I just can't keep starting again amid all of this that's happening. I think just so powerful, and I think even in that moment, there's not much humor here, but there is this idea of both kind of the beauty and also the horror of it all that I think is really powerful.
[00:26:05] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's that nuance and that complexity that is on every page of this book that made me love it so much because, yeah, I think he and his mother both have had to develop such humor as a way to cope with the tragedy, and so I think being able to pass that along in the narrative is so powerful.
[00:26:23] Ashley: Yeah. What about you, Jen? What's your quote?
[00:26:26] Jen: Mine is about the storytelling. So it's "A tail has many tails and many heads, particularly if it's true like life. It is a river with many branches, regulates creeks and distributors. I'll get to everything. I swear I've written about the two disasters that befall us, the financial collapse and the pandemic.
[00:26:43] But I must pause a bit before I tell of the third, the explosion. It's a bit overwhelming to write about. I'll continue the story. I just need to breathe." And I thought that wrestling, like the writing around the things that are painful, because he can't do at that moment. I thought it was so human and so helped us to understand who he was, that he wants the truth.
[00:27:08] He wants to get the truth out there, but he can't confront it all at once because it's just too much. And so some of that circularity that makes the narrative so distinctive is also because he has to parcel out the trauma in little pieces, because to do it all at once is just too much for any one human being to deal with emotionally.
[00:27:31] And so I just think that consideration of how he navigates the elements of the story overall is both. So, like I think of when you're telling a story, and you forget something, you're like, oh yeah, I gotta tell you about this first, or this other thing won't make sense. But also some of it is so deliberate because.
[00:27:48] He has to tell it out of order, or it hurts too much, and I thought that was just really, you know, both beautiful and sad throughout.
[00:27:56] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I loved the way that we move through the different things, and that's where I feel like the rereading would be really rich because then you know better how they're fitting together and can appreciate more the threads between them. But yeah, I did love that idea of just how to manage the overwhelm when we see that he's experienced so much.
[00:28:23] Jen: Yeah. All right. What did you choose as your pairing?
[00:28:27] Ashley: I went with a book that we read for a buddy read, which was Zoulfa Katouh's As Long As the Lemon Trees Grow, and it's very different. I think this is a very distinctive book. I did think about Slaughterhouse Five. So again, if you haven't read Slaughterhouse-Five, it is a very different book,
[00:28:43] but certainly worth the read. I just wanted to go with something that maybe not as many people had read, but I think that idea of like the coming unstuck in time, PTSD, like navigating a lot of trauma, and then what that means for you and the present day, like, I think you really get into that.
[00:28:58] But with this one, the reason that it came to my mind, this is also really beautiful, very powerful, hard to read, I would say, a story about Syria. And the reason that it came to my mind is just that Salama, our main character, is having to navigate as everything's crumbling around her in Syria.
[00:29:19] She is having to navigate what to do and whether to stay in a situation where the country that you love is falling apart. And so she is volunteering at a hospital, and then she's also trying to figure out a way to get out of the country before her sister-in-law, Layla, gives birth. And so it's this tension between.
[00:29:42] Feeling that she's got to stay in this place so that she can be of service, and this desire to start a new life somewhere else that would be safer and more secure and more comfortable and not so painful, and so I really think that, again, although we are not seeing Raja. Constantly confront that question in the way that Salama does
[00:30:06] in As Long As the Lemon Trees Grow, I think it is an undercurrent of the story is like so many people in his family have chosen to leave, so many of them have built lives elsewhere, and yet he's staying in Lebanon. He's staying with his mother. They have made a choice to navigate all the ups and downs. And then, you know, what does that mean and what does that look like?
[00:30:27] And so I think we kind of get to that, the heart of that question, in both of the books in a way that I think is really interesting. So again, that Zoulfa Katouh, As Long As The Lemon Trees Grow.
[00:30:37] Jen: Oh, I think that's such a good pairing. And you're right, the tones are quite different, but some of those central questions resonate so deeply in both.
[00:30:45] Ashley: And just kind of also like the way that the more global impact affects the personal. So I think in that one also, like it's not, we get into some of the complexities of all the horrific things that Syrians have had to navigate, but it's very much about like her specific life in Salama's day to day and like what that looks like as opposed to these kind of more sweeping observations of, a war torn country.
[00:31:11] Jen: Well, and just the way she. I don't wanna get in spoiler territory here, but the way she navigates coping with some of her trauma, I think, is also such a part of that book. And I think that's, yeah, I think that's an important part of both texts.
[00:31:24] Ashley: Yeah. Right. That's happening too. The way that we psychologically navigate some of what's going on. Yeah. I don't wanna spoil either of them. You're right that there's definitely some connections there. What about you, Jen? What's your pairing?
[00:31:34] Jen: Oh, I had such a hard time with this. So ultimately, I was writing my best of 2025 list for the blog while I was prepping for this episode. So again, we're recording a little early, and I decided to go with Jason Mott's. People like us in part because it is a book that I loved equally as much, and that I have equally as difficult a time
[00:31:59] trying to explain what it is about. It is a super slippery plot to describe, so I'll just try to get into it. So People Like Us is a sequel to Mott's first book, Hell Of A Book, which wasn't an award winner, and also People Like Us deals with a character who has won a big book award and is enjoying it.
[00:32:26] the benefits of that, but also realizing ultimately doesn't change everything, right? You're still an author. You're still trying to get in front of people. This book is also definitely about gun violence in America, and it has two alternating perspectives. Both our authors are dealing with gun violence in America, but in very different ways, and both characters have experienced deep loss.
[00:32:53] And you know, with a topic like gun violence, of course, it is traumatic and sad and horrible, and yet it is another book that made me laugh out loud more than once. And there's deep satire there, and sometimes satire can turn me off. But in this one, I feel like the way Mott navigates the satire to draw attention to the topic of gun violence works really well because sometimes satire, I think, can diminish the topic it's writing about.
[00:33:21] And in this one, I don't think that it does. And that phrase, People Like Us appears. over and over again through the text, and it's constantly like, well, what does that mean? Who are the people like us? And in the narrative, that comes to mean very different things for both of the authors.
[00:33:39 Ase I said, it's really hard to talk about. So one of the authors is on a European tour, and the other is talking at a school that has experienced a shooting, and he is trying to figure out what wisdom he can offer. Off course, it's like, how can you even begin to talk to a school, to teachers who experience this, and to bring them comfort.
[00:33:58] When there's no solution on offer, how do you make it anything but empty platitudes about the tragedy? And then there's this magical, you don't really know if it's magical. I still don't know if it's magical. There's this other character who will just show up who sort of embodies violence, but also embodies black history in the South.
[00:34:17] Yeah, it is so many pieces coming together. I realize that this is totally incomprehensible. I will just say it is a completely brilliant book. The voice of both characters is strong and distinctive, and it has this incredible mix of absolute tragedy and absolute humor that I think those things get at the same sort of feeling I had when I was reading.
[00:34:43] The true story of Raja, the gullible. So sorry, I wish I could make that, and I could read the synopsis, but I also feel like it leaves out so much that makes this book magical. And I don't know how you write a concise synopsis. So I feel bad for the publisher because it's not what it's about that makes it powerful.
[00:35:00] It's how it's about that. So anyway, that is Jason Mott's People Like Us; it helps to have read Hell Of A Book, but if you haven't, People Like Us would work as a standalone. I actually didn't know going into it that it was a sequel, so you can totally read it without having read the first book. All right.
[00:35:16] Sorry, that was a mess.
[00:35:19] Ashley: It sounds really interesting. I don't know, a useful follow-up, but I am intrigued for sure, and I think what I'm hearing you say is just that it takes on these really complex social issues, but also has these like really interesting characters, and you are getting into their psyche. And I think that part is true with like everything that's going on in Lebanon, and then the way that we also were just seeing Raja as a really complicated, funny, unpredictable, I don't know, self-deprecating person who's just interesting.
[00:35:55] Jen: Yeah. Yes. Thank you for
[00:35:59] concisely stating all of those things.
[00:36:01] Ashley: But I think I can understand that a book that you see as a pairing is hard to explain in the same way. 'Cause I think this is a very complicated book. Before we started recording, Jen and I were like, Should we cut down the summary? Like it's a really long summary, but like, what would we remove?
[00:36:14] Like, I don't know. I mean, it's just hard. It's complicated.
[00:36:18] Jen: That could be the name of our episode. It's complicated. All right, Ashley, so how many bookish hearts will you give this one?
[00:36:26] Ashley: Oh, definitely five. What about you, Jen?
[00:36:28] Jen: Easy, easy, five. Alright, well, we are going to wrap up with our Unabridged favorites. Ashley, what is a favorite you wanna share?
[00:36:36] Ashley: Oh my gosh. I can never think of a favorite. And today I was like, oh, I definitely have one. I wanted to share Waffle. It is an app, a game app. And Jen, you have not heard of this?
[00:36:46] Jen: No, I have not.
[00:36:47] Ashley: Okay, so my kiddo, my 9-year-old, is like obsessed with, she loves like the New York Times stuff, which we always do every day.
[00:36:55] So she has to do like the back archive one, but she likes all the like Wordle and strands and connections. She likes those different word games, and so I was trying to help her find on, and we downloaded several that she likes. They looked fine on the reviews, but then it's just like ad Central, and there's junk everywhere, and it's constantly like you do one thing for five seconds and then there's a new ad, and the ad, you know, runs for 30 seconds or whatever.
[00:37:21] So I was like, well, this is not, but anyway, I came across this one. It's called Waffle, and it is a Wordle-like grid. So every day there's a new one. There are five words in it. You have all the letters and, like Wordlee, you know when the letter's in the right place, 'cause it's green, you know when it's in the right word because it's yellow.
[00:37:41] But then you have to figure out how they all move around within a certain number of moves. And every week they have a deluxe waffle, also. And the deluxe one is more, it's like seven letters per word. And so it's a more complicated grid. Andd they also have two additional games each day that maybe they're gonna incorporate into the app.
[00:38:01] But one of 'em is, I forget what they call it, but it's like, it's a word search. You're just looking for the word. And it seems like that should be super easy because, like, either up, down, across, or diagonal, like it has to be, and yet it's not as easy as you would think.
[00:38:14] And then there's another one they call Stacked Down that I think is brand new, but it looks like Scrabble tiles. And what you're trying to do is make one word at a time, and only a few of the letters are unveiled at a time. So you have to find the right letter to continue making the word. And there are 10 words to make.
[00:38:32] So it's like each time you have to keep playing with the letters a little bit to figure out what word will be unveiled. So I don't do those as much, but I do the Waffle pretty much every day, 'cause it doesn't take very long, but it's very fun. And I think what I've really appreciated, and it's just made me realize that I haven't come across this in a long time, is like. They do have this tiny little ad bar down at the bottom that just stays on, which I assume is how they fund the app. But like that is it. It's funny because I'm like, oh, I really like this. Whereas, like most stuff, I don't mess with him at all anymore. I do the New York Times, not every day, but a lot of days I'll do the you know, some of those.
[00:39:04] But otherwise, I stay out of it because I can't stand the ads and stuff. So I just love this. So I think for people in our reading community who love words and who just enjoy words. I think this is a fun, easy-to-play app that I was like, Oh, this is like really nice. And also, I hope not too many people discover it because it is currently great.
[00:39:25] So I just want it to stay the way it is. It's lovely. It's not too addictive. It doesn't take a lot of time. It is fun. Okay. That was a long explanation.
[00:39:34] Jen: Okay. That sounds great.
[00:39:36] Ashley: What about you, Jen? What's your favorite?
[00:39:39] Jen: I am going to share Stranger Things, which you know, does not need any help from me, so they're doing this extended release schedule. So they release the first four episodes and then the next ones are coming out on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, I can't remember.
[00:39:51] We won't be able to watch right away. And then the last one is coming out, I think, on New Year's Eve, and they're getting longer and longer, so several of them are going to be movie-length episodes.
[00:40:00] But stepping back into that world, I just love it so much. And you know, the kids are all in their twenties now, and they're wearing these ridiculous wigs, and it's like, oh my gosh.
[00:40:12] Alan Stefan, one of my favorite TV critics, said, It looks like they should be getting statin prescriptions at this point, which I thought was hilarious, but it is such fun storytelling and just. I really felt like they did a beautiful job emphasizing the friendship between these kids and the ways that they served as found family for each other.
[00:40:31] So it's like, yeah, it's just one of those wonderful watching experiences that makes it feel like old friends. And yeah, I'm bummed that it's been a while, but it's also, I really was ready. And so it's been great. So yeah, Stranger Things again, I'm sure everybody who wants to watch it has watched it, but I do love it.
[00:40:51] Ashley: That's awesome.
[00:40:51] Jen: Yeah. All right, everyone.
[00:40:53] If you didn't join the chat already but would like to go back and see what we discussed, we did talk about this one on Instagram as our book club pick. So that chat happened on Monday. But thank you for listening, and we'd love to know what you think of the book.
[00:41:06] Do you have comments or opinions about what you heard today? We'd love to hear them. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at unabridged pod or on the web@unabridgedpod.com for ways to support us to get more involved. You can sign up for our newsletter. Join a Buddy Read or become an ambassador.
[00:41:25] Thanks for listening to Unabridged.
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