300: Celebrating the 300th Episode of Unabridged!

Have you been with us since the early days—or are you just finding your way to our bookish corner? In Episode 300, we celebrate a huge milestone with a very special guest… our beloved former co-host, Sara! We kick things off with a Bookish Check-In, then look back at standout reads and moments from eight years and 300 episodes of Unabridged.

We revisit unforgettable conversations and reads, including Dopesick by Beth Macy (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm) paired with Jarrett J. Krosoczka’s graphic memoir Hey, Kiddo (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm); a joyful return to Anne of Green Gables (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm); and the lasting impact of Tommy Orange’s There There (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm) (plus a nod to Bryan Stevenson’s Just Mercy Bookshop.org | Libro.fm). We share favorite memories like our spirited “Is Love Actually a holiday movie?” debate, book-festival fangirl moments, and the pre-lockdown Podfest trip that re-shaped our podcasting lives. We close with a Lit Chat prompt about the childhood series that made us readers.

Whether you’ve listened to one episode or all 300, thank you for being here. Come celebrate with us, and tell us your favorite Unabridged memory or the series that hooked you on reading! You can always join the bookish conversation on Instagram.

Bookish Check-in

Sara - Riley Sager’s The Only One Left (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm) and Lynda Mullaly Hunt’s One for the Murphys (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Ashley - Priya Parker’s The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Jen - James Islington’s The Will of the Many (Bookshop.org)

Our Favorite Podcast Book Picks

Sara’s Pick: 

L. M. Montgomery’s Anne of Green Gables (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Listen to our book discussion here. 

Ashley’s Pick:

Tommy Orange’s There, There (ep 146) (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Listen to our book discussion here.

Jen’s Pick:

Beth Macy’s Dopesick: Dealers, Doctors, and the Drug Company that Addicted America (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm) and Jarrett J. Krosoczka’s Hey, Kiddo: How I Lost My Mother, Found My Father, and Dealt with Family Addiction (ep 67 2019) (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Listen to our book discussion here.

Our Favorite Moments

Sara’s Pick:

Love Actually Debate (ep 104) What Makes a Holiday Movie. Listen here.

Ashley’s Pick:

Orlando trip in 2020!

Jen’s Highlight:

Virginia Festival of the Book!

Mentioned in Episode

Bryan Stevenson’s Just Mercy (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Lit Chat Game

Tune in to hear today’s question and our responses.

#shownotes

(A note to our readers: click on the hashtags above to see our other blog posts with the same hashtag.)

Interested in what else we're reading? Check out our Featured Books page.

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Full Transcript for Episode

[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome to the Unabridged Podcast. I'm Ashley,

[00:00:05] Jen: And this is Jen.

[00:00:06] Ashley: Join us for bookish episodes and check out our website unabridgedpod.com, where you can find lots of new bookish content to grow your TBR.

[00:00:13] Jen: Sign up for our newsletter to find out more about online book discussions and upcoming events.

[00:00:18] Find us on Patreon for extra Unabridged content. Join us on Instagram and Facebook at unabridged pod and message us there, or see our website to get plugged into the unabridged community. You want opinions about books? We've got 'em.

[00:00:35] Ashley: Hello, and welcome to Unabridged.

[00:00:37] This is a very special episode. It is our episode 300.

[00:00:42] Jen: Woo.

[00:00:43] Woo-hoo.

[00:00:43] Sara: Woo.

[00:00:44] Ashley: And today, to celebrate our 300th episode, we have a very special guest. Before I introduce our guest, I'm going to let our guest say hello.

[00:00:53] Sara: Hello

[00:00:56] Ashley: Longtime listeners will know that voice. We are so happy to have our beloved friend and co-host, Sara, back on the podcast today.

[00:01:04] Sara: I am so happy to be back.

[00:01:07] Ashley: So, longtime listeners know Sara did the podcast with all three of us for years and years. And so we asked her if she wanted to come and join us today to celebrate. To celebrate today, we'll do like normal, our bookish check-in, but then we wanted to go back and revisit some of the highlights over the years in the podcast.

[00:01:26] And so we wanted to share with you all some of our favorite books that came up when we were thinking back, and then also some special things that we've done together. To get started. We'll start the way we always do with our book is Check-in. Sara, what are you reading?

[00:01:40] Sara: So some listeners might not know that I'm back in the classroom, so I'm teaching seventh-grade English. So I read a lot and pretty broadly. So I am gonna give you the one that I'm reading outside the classroom and one that I'm reading in my classroom. So since it's fall, I'm reading Riley Sager's The Only One Left.

[00:02:02] which is a spooky story about a woman who is not able to talk. She's older, and she has a caregiver, and it's set in the eighties. So when she was a young girl, she was accused of killing her whole family, but nobody ever believed it. So, all of this is kind of playing out in the book, and it's, so far, it's really good.

[00:02:25] I typically like Riley Sager for a good thriller or spooky story. And then for the classroom I'm reading, Lynda Mullaly Hunt's, One For The Murphys. She also wrote Fish In A Tree, which is a beloved book, but this one is about Carl, whose mother has just passed away. A victim of domestic violence.

[00:02:44] She's in the hospital, in intensive care, and they have to place her in foster care with the Murphys. And so far it is fabulous. I love it. And if you have a middle school-aged child, I think that it grabs you right from the beginning. So that's what I'm reading in my two different lives.

[00:03:04] Ashley: I love that, Sar., I had not heard of it, and in fact, I don't think I've read Hunt's other one either. So I really need to check out her work. And then I finally, Jen, I don't remember if I told you, but I finally read Riley Sager's Survive the Night, and I loved it. I thought it was very compelling and very twisty.

[00:03:24] I was very surprised by a lot of the turns. But it was funny because I was reading it at night, and I don't think, like, it's not like super scary or anything, but it was definitely impacting my sleep, and I had to be like, oh, I cannot read this at night.

[00:03:36] Sara: Well, that one I think is so, it's like almost claustrophobic

[00:03:40] because she doesn't have a phone… because we're so used to being able to contact people whenever we need to contact. And then it is set in the eighties, you just think, just pull out the phone, but you don't have a phone.

[00:03:52] You know, you have to find a payphone.

[00:03:54] Ashley: And there are a lot of times where you're like, please make a different choice.

[00:03:56] Sara: Yes

[00:03:56] Ashley: And then, and then she keeps not making that choice, and I'm like, oh no. Oh no. So yes, there's an intensity to it that I enjoyed for spooky season, but I also had to be like, oh, this is not soothing for going to bed, you know?

[00:04:09] Jen: Yeah, I love the only one left. I'm hit or miss on h;s, I read them every summer. I didn't love this last one. The name is escaping me right now, but I love The Only One Left, and I have read Fish in A Tree, and that was great. I haven't read One For The Murphys.

[00:04:22] Sara: It's really, gosh, Jen, you would be able to read it in like one sitting 'cause it's a short book, but it's really good.

[00:04:29] Ashley: I love that. What about you, Jen? What are you reading?

[00:04:31] Jen: So I'm reading James Islington's The Will Of The Many, and I'm really enjoying it so far. I will say this one has pretty high fantasy. And so there is a lot of complicated world-building. So I will spare you all of the details. But the things that you would need to know are that the main character is a teenager named Viz.

[00:04:49] He's 17, and he lives in a society that is very hierarchical, and basically, what happens is the people in the lower tiers cede CEDE. There was some confusion there. Their will. So their energy and emotional energy as well to the people in the upper hierarchies through this process that we don't really know much about yet.

[00:05:12] Ashley: Like on purpose?

[00:05:13] Jen: On purpose, but they don't really have a choice.

[00:05:15] It's just built into the legal system. And if they commit a crime, their punishment is built around them being attached to these things called sappers that pull even more of their will and send it to the hierarchy and Vis's family. We don't know exactly what happened, but in some way, they were killed by this government.

[00:05:38] And so Vis has decided that he never wants to cede. So there are opportunities when you're younger to cede, to like garner favor and to do these other things. And he has never taken advantage of any of that because he sees it as surrendering to the government that killed his parents. But as he gets closer and closer to 18, that's the point at which it.

[00:05:59] becomes involuntary. And just as he's, you know, feeling like the end is near and then he's going to have to start, you know, 'cause it makes them tired and it makes them, yeah, they lose their will, so they just can't do the things that they want to do. It's all subsumed by these other people. This strange opportunity pops up, and I don't wanna give too much away, but there's a dark academia element.

[00:06:25] So there's this training part that I'm in the midst of now, to get 'em ready to go to this academy. And then there are all kinds of, I don't know, like sabotage, and there are all these different groups. It's really, it's pretty complicated, but it's really compelling. I don't know Islington, but he's

[00:06:42] pretty well known in Fantasy Circle. He's an Australian author, but the book feels very Roman. There are a lot of names, like Roman names, and so many kinds of those illusions. So yeah, so far it's really compelling. I'm enjoying it. It is a chunker, it's like 650 pages, so

[00:06:58] Sara: Immediately out.

[00:07:03] Ashley: I know. I was like Oh man, that is a long book.

[00:07:06] Jen: It is a long, but it's, it is a duology, so there's only gonna be one more, but yeah, so that is James Islington's, The Will of the Many.

[00:07:13] Ashley: Wow. That, I mean, that, that sounds really interesting. Yeah.

[00:07:17] Sara: Definitely sounds interesting. It's just, you know, me and the pages. Can't do those.

[00:07:23] Jen: You know, and the pages are very quotable.

[00:07:28] Ashley: Same friend. In fact, started with V.E. Schwab's Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil. Have either of you read that?

[00:07:33] Jen: No, not yet.

[00:07:34] Ashley: I started on my Kindle, and I just didn't realize. But I mean, that thing, I don't know the page count, but it is long. It is very long. So I've been reading and reading.

[00:07:43] I'm like, oh, this is like, so compellinForfor some reason, I saw how far I was in it, and it's like 25%.

[00:07:49] Sara: Oh.

[00:07:50] Jen: It is chunky. It is a chunky one. I don't know the page count either, but yeah.

[00:07:55] Ashley: It's a long book.

[00:07:56] Jen: Do you want me to look it up or 

[00:07:58] Ashley: I'm gonna Google it. I'm gonna Google it. Let's see page count. I was only 515 pages. Well, the hardcover is 544. Anyway. Okay, so 650, that's a good indicator for me that, you know, that's long. Okay.

[00:08:13] Jen: All right, Ashley, what are you reading?

[00:08:16] Ashley: Well, aside from Schwab's book that I kind of paused on, 'cause I was like, oh.

[00:08:20] I've got a ways to go, gotta pace myself. I'm also reading Priya Parker's, The Art of Gathering, How We Meet and Why It Matters. We were actually going to interview her on a show that I work with, so I was really interested to read what she had to say. And, Sara, I think you especially would love this book.

[00:08:38] Jen. I don't know how familiar

[00:08:40] Jen: I've read it. Yeah. 

[00:08:42] Ashley: Okay. I mean, so a few things. This is a nonfiction book that really examines how we get together and how we could do it more effectively is basically what the book is about. And when she's talking about gatherings, she really means like meetings,

[00:08:56] Sara: clubs, wedding showers, you know, weddings, but also like

[00:09:01] Ashley: She works with these huge, very high-stakes events that are, you know, like with the UN and with two conflicting sides and peace situations, trying to find ways forward, like she does that kinda work also, that's like very much like what I would consider the mediation space. But she's just really an expert at breaking down how we get together. If we did it with more intentionality, then we could have very different outcomes. And it's Fascinating. Like, I really have just been like, wow. I get together with people all the time. We all do. And I think she just talks about how if we would stop looking so much at. What's on the menu and what kind of chair we're gonna pick, and instead would think about how we invite people into the space and what we do to set up the moment before it begins, and then how to make that moment the most impactful.

[00:09:57] It would be totally transformative for us, and I think she makes a really convincing case for it with a lot of really interesting examples. So I was just really, I hadn't heard a lot about it. I mean, it has gotten a lot of coverage. I hadn't heard a lot about what it really got into, and I just have really been, I mean, I was listening to it on audio first and I was enjoying it so much that I was like, oh, I'm gonna buy the book as well because I really want to imprint, because I think there's just a lot of things that I would like to carry with me about the next time.

[00:10:25] Setting up anything or participating in something where we're doing a community event. I just think she has a lot of very practical tips. So I have a ways to go, and I'm still like, you know, it's unfurling, but I think I just, what is a takeaway for me so far is just that it is worth taking some time to think about something that I definitely haven't thought much about.

[00:10:44] And by thinking about it, it really can result in some meaningful interactions. And just kind of change the way we do things. I mean, she very much is like if, for example, at the book club, if the book club is about discussing the book, then like you don't actually have a purpose. When you have a gathering, the purpose has to be debatable.

[00:11:02] The way she talks about gatherings is a lot like how we would talk about teaching people how to write a persuasive essay. It's the same kind of stuff of like. If you're just stating the topic, then you have not yet identified the purpose of your meeting, you know, for example. And so I think just really, she's like, we often just do things because it's the way we've always done them.

[00:11:21] And I mean, of course, all of u have lots of experience with meetings and thinking about how we can do meetings more effectively. So I think what I really love about it so far is just that, it's really seeing all the different landscapes where we have gatherings, and the way that it's applicable.

[00:11:34] So I think what I like about it is that it's both something that I have not thought about in this way, and then also, that no matter what your life circumstances are, it can be applicable because we all, as humans, get together with other humans. And so it's like, how do we do that in interesting ways?

[00:11:50] So, so again, that's Priya Parker's, The Art of Gathering, How We Meet and Why It Matters. And I'm really intrigued so far.

[00:11:56] Sara: That sounds awesome.

[00:11:57] Ashley: Sara, I think you'd really like it.

[00:11:59] Sara: That sounds like one I'm gonna put on my audio list.

[00:12:02] Ashley: Yes, I love the audio.

[00:12:03] Jen: Yeah, I listened as well, and it did make me wanna buy the print because I think it's so applicable to the classroom as well, and I keep thinking I wanna buy it to think about ways I can apply those lessons to the classroom. Because I think so often, like I have an agenda,

[00:12:19] Sara: but I'm not necessarily thinking about, yeah, how am I inviting my students into the space and how am I making clear the purpose for why we're meeting, and I, I

[00:12:27] Ashley: And even like in literary circles and stuff, like I think when you're teaching kids how to have like small groups, like I think there's a lot of applications in that sense. Too like helping them know how to like, make their group work more effective. I immediately texted the director of the grad program I did last year and said like, Hey, this book is really applicable.

[00:12:45] 'Cause ours was in, the grad program is in innovation and leadership, and we talked a lot about groups and teams and like how to innovate within groups and teams. And so I was like, oh my gosh, this is like, so applicable because it is when you're trying to innovate, part of what you're having to figure out is like, how do you take the dynamics as they are and then do something different? And so I feel like she really gets at that. It's really interesting.

[00:13:06] Sara: Yeah, that sounds awesome.

[00:13:07] Jen: Yeah,

[00:13:08] Ashley: So we're gonna do something a little different today. Like I said in the beginning, we really wanted to think back over it. We started this in February of 2018, and in actuality, the idea for the podcast and the preliminary work for it really started in the summer.

[00:13:22] 2017. So we've been doing this a long time, so we just kinda wanted to look back and pick out some highlights from over the time that we have had together and share a few of those with you.

[00:13:32]Okayy. So we'll share about our books first, and again, this is not our favorite book. We just tried to say, like, what is a highlight of something that we've read that came up, that we have discussed here on the podcast. So, Jen, I'm gonna ask you this time first.

[00:13:45] So what book came to mind for you?

[00:13:46] Jen: Well, as is typical, I'm going to cheat a little bit. We did an episode.

[00:13:51] Ashley: Some things have never changed.

[00:13:52] Jen: I know, right?

[00:13:53] Sara: Oh yeah.

[00:13:54] Jen: I always wanna talk about all the things. So, back in 2019, episode 67, hello teachers, you know why I'm pausing there? And anyone who works with young people, you know why I paused after 67. Anyway, so. We actually did an episode about two books that we saw as being connected.

[00:14:12] So I am gonna talk about both of them. We did Beth Macy's Dopesick: Dealers, Doctors, and the Drug Company That Addicted America, and Jarrett J. Krosoczka. Hey Kiddo: How I Lost My Mother, Found My Father and Dealt With Family Addiction. So it was two non-fiction takes on a similar or at least connected topic, and I thought that each of these books individually stood on its own, but also that the way.

[00:14:36] They interacted in our brains, and our conversation was really powerful. So Macy's book was powerful for a multitude of reasons. That is the first time I really, truly understood the opioid epidemic, and in many ways had been developed quite deliberately as something that would addict people because then that would make more money for pharmaceutical companies.

[00:14:58] And I think Macy does such a good job both at journalistically exploring that, but also looking at the impact on individual people and families and one reason it really resonated is she was talking about places that geographically were close to home and that I think it would resonate with any readers, but that was this extra layer of understanding when it's talking about high schools in neighboring school districts and teenagers who have died because of opioids.

[00:15:29] And yeah, it hit really hard, and then  Krosoczka's memoir is a graphic memoir, and he is talking about the impact of opioids on his mother. And he does such a great job of expressing that from his personal point of view as the child of someone who was addicted, and the way that affected his whole family. And he told that story just so beautifully that it was like a zoomed-in version of what Macy's story did.

[00:15:55] So I thought, yeah, I couldn't separate those two, but both of those books definitely popped into my mind.

[00:16:01] Sara: I appreciate you picking those because I thought they were both really impactful for me, too, and I feel like I wouldn't have read them had it not been for the podcast. It just wouldn't have been on my radar, and we got to see both of the authors meet one of them, so that was really cool too.

[00:16:15] So, that's definitely one of my impactful readings that we did back then.

[00:16:21] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah, and I feel like it was, I mean, Macy's book especially. Changed a core understanding that I had or thought I had about what addiction was and how it worked. And I mean, she shows which is a raw truth, that it can happen to anyone, and that a lot of the people that it has happened to, like Jen said, it was part of a relatively systemic and insidious process.

[00:16:46] Approach for a while there that there is more regulation now, but because of what has happened, we've lost a tremendous amount of lives because of it, and people continue to battle addiction because of it. So yeah, I think that for me, a lot of what she discussed, and then the people that she studied and the research that she did, was just completely illuminating.

[00:17:05] And then, like you said, I appreciated the pairing because I think with, Hey kiddo, we really got a firsthand account of a kid experiencing that.

[00:17:15] Sara: It really gave me perspective on incarceration as it pertains to drug use and, you know, and all of that. So yeah, it was definitely like a very light bulb moment reading that book.

[00:17:27] Ashley: The way that we were trying to help people in recovery programs and continue. I mean, this continues to be a struggle in our country and globally, in the way that we approach recovery, whether it's going to be effective or not. Like the way that she explored all of that, too.

[00:17:42] I mean, again, I didn't realize how many assumptions I had about addiction until I read the book and was forced to sort of confront them and be like, oh, I have made a lot of assumptions about this that are just not true. There's no ground in fact.

[00:17:55] Sara: Also made me really question when I go to the doctor, you know? And, I had a back injury right after we read this book, and the first thing that was offered to me was narcotics to help with the pain management. And it, like, after reading that book, I was like, absolutely not. And I know there are times when you.

[00:18:15] need those things. But I was terrified because there was never a thought about, like, how can we find out what's causing this? It was more like, How are we gonna manage?

[00:18:24] the pain? And so that was really, I really was grateful that I'd read that book because it made me really think about what I would accept for treatment basically.

[00:18:34] Ashley: Yeah, I think that's a great point, 'cause the same after I had surgery. I mean, it's that same kind of thing of like, here's all these medications you can take for pain management. And like you said, Sara, there are times that we need that, but you want to make an informed choice. And I think if I had not read Dopesick and some of the other things that I've read since about addiction, I just don't think I would've been as

[00:18:51] careful because I think we trust people to know what to recommend, and sometimes even if it's well-meaning. I said before that things are more regulated now than they were for a while there, and so people are more cautious, but it's still just a very slippery slope. I mean, I think that was the thing that was so apparent is just how easily it can tip the wrong way.

[00:19:13] Jen: Yes.

[00:19:13] Sara: Yeah, for sure.

[00:19:14] Jen: Yeah. And just the way the groundwork had been laid by so many changes. I also read later, if you haven't read, Patrick Radden Keefe's Empire of Pain.

[00:19:22] That is a deep dive into the Sackler family and the way that they manipulated situations to make this happen.

[00:19:28] For me, my understanding started with Beth Macy's Dopesick. So yeah, it's an amazing work of journalism.

[00:19:34] Ashley: Yeah. Sara, what about you? What book came up for you?

[00:19:37] Sara: We're gonna take a hard left from that because my pick is our episode 205, Anne of Green Gables. So definitely a different vibe than Jen's pick. But I think what I loved about this is that I think it's a classic, like, and I, notably, have said, I hate all classics and I'm not reading them.

[00:20:01] And the podcast really did open me up to giving a few of them a chance. So we read Anne of Green Gables, and I had never really read it all the way through. I knew it just in like pop culture, its relevance and all that, but I had never read it all the way through. And we read it for a book club for episode 205, and I listened to the version that Rachel McAdams reads, and I loved this book.

[00:20:28] It just totally changed my perspective on it. Just couldn't believe I hadn't read it. Earlier, I just loved our conversation on it, and I just loved how we all, just were gushing about this book. And so it was just like a core experience for me, being like, okay, so some classics deserve my time.

[00:20:49] And then I think later we read Pride and Prejudice, which I also listened to, and I really enjoyed that. So it was just kind of a turning point moment for me as a reader because. I just loved it so much, and I'd had it on my shelf since I was a child and had never read it. So it was a great experience, and I just loved Anne and loved her story, and the audible version was fantastic, so I just really enjoyed it.

[00:21:12] Jen: Yeah. That's such a beautiful book. That was one of my childhood favorites. I was obsessed with Ellen Montgomery, and so yeah, to be able to revisit it with the two of you was so wonderful, and to know that you all loved it as much as I did. Yeah.

[00:21:24] Sara: It's so funny, when my Google Photos, it popped up when we did the Halloween, Happy Hour, virtual happy hour, and you were dressed up with Anne's braids.

[00:21:34] Jen: That was a look for sure.

[00:21:35] Ashley: I love the same Sara that I also had not read in its entirety, definitely. And I loved it so much, like experiencing that with you all, and I for sure would not have picked it up because I think I also had this stereotypical attitude toward Anne, and it was a complete misunderstanding of who she was as a character. And I think also it's like looking now and reading it and thinking like the way that authors do shape and change how we perceive people, how we perceive kids in this case, like how we perceive a young girl and, her spunkiness and her, attitude and how, you know, I think Montgomery is putting in a new light at the time that she was writing like this new light toward, this lovely young girl who, you know, in other circumstances might have been portrayed in a very different way.

[00:22:25] And again, in a way that I think I had misunderstood her as a character entirely. And then when I read it, I mean, I just love her. Like, I think you come to love her. She's very much portrayed as a whole person who really is doing her best in the world, whose unique circumstances lead toward really meaningful things in her community.

[00:22:44] Jen: Oh, that's so beautiful. Yes,

[00:22:46] Sara: Yes. I kind of wanna reread it.

[00:22:50] Ashley: We were talking about it., I was like, Oh, I should read it with the girls. I

[00:22:51] think they would really love it.

[00:22:52] Sara: Oh yeah, that'd be perfect.

[00:22:53] Ashley: That's so sweet.

[00:22:54] Jen: I will say the old movies that were from the eighties are really good too. I haven't watched the new adaptation 'cause I've heard mixed reviews. And I don't wanna, color my memories of the book and the original series, but it's really good. All right.

[00:23:09] Ashley, what's your book that popped up for you?

[00:23:13] Ashley: Oh gosh. Well, at first I thought one of you might talk about Bryan Stevenson's Just Mercy.

[00:23:17] Jen: It was on my list.

[00:23:18] Ashley: Since neither of you did, I just wanna say that's not the one I'm gonna talk about. But I know because we have circled back to that many times. That was one of the very first books that we read, very early on in our journey.

[00:23:28] And I think it is one that I, like you said, Sara, I don't know that I would've read it if it hadn't been for the podcast, but when people ask what is a book that everyone should read, that is almost always the first one I recommend. I just think the way that Stevenson shows the intricacies of our justice system in our country.

[00:23:50] Expose some really important things about the flaws in a way that is grounded in truth, grounded in research, grounded in real lives, and so, yes, that one comes to mind. So I guess I'm cheating, Jen. I said I wasn't gonna talk about that one, but I just know that the three of us have revisited the impact of that book many times.

[00:24:07] So that comes up for me. The one that I had on the list. Here is Tommy Orange's There, There. And I think the reason that came up for me is that, well, first, So Orange just won the MacArthur Genius Grant.

[00:24:19] And if you haven't read his work, I just can't recommend it enough. But I think the reason it came up for me is just that the book was brilliant. I had a phenomenal reading experience with it. But I think also it was that the discussion that I had with you all was so meaningful and profound and exploratory, and I understood it in such a more complex way after talking with you all.

[00:24:48] And I think that's why I wanted to share that one is because, and this has been true of so many of our discussions, is like, I think when we become adults, we don't always get to celebrate in real life, like having really important conversations about things. And something I really value about the podcast and about reading with both of you is just that, like I've gotten to continue to do a thing that I love to do, but might have left behind if it hadn't been for this opportunity.

[00:25:17] Jen: Yes. I love that book so much. I actually still, it's included in my lit circles at school, and students always have the best experience reading it, 'cause I think it is such a rich text and it's just so understanding of the modern condition. As applies to a very particular community, but also it really understands like modern America, and yeah, students just really gravitate towards it.

[00:25:45] Sara: Same, I reiterate everything you all said about that. I just adored it. It was such great writing and I just remember reading that book and just feeling gut punched, so, you know, just, ugh. It's like visceral. Yeah, I adored that, and also what you said about Just Mercy, to me that book is just like Dopesick.

[00:26:04] It's one of those books that has stuck with me since I read it, and so I'd carry it with me and think about it a lot. So, both great picks, and it's okay, you cheated.

[00:26:16] Ashley: Thank you. We also wanted to share a highlight of our time together, so we're just gonna look back over the years and think about something that we enjoyed that came from doing the podcast together. So, Sara, you wanna store us off for that one?

[00:26:29] Sara: I would be happy to. So mine is, so I guess when I'm thinking about times in the podcast, a lot of times we have similar beliefs and things that we enjoy. So we often agree on what we're talking about.

[00:26:45] So I'm going to circle back to a time when Jen and I had a face-off in episode 1 0 4, and the topic was what makes a holiday movie. And specifically, we faced off against each other about Love Actually. And we had a heated debate, which Ashley was the reluctant referee of.

[00:27:05] And I just love that because when I think about it, we had a respectful debate and I don't think that we changed each other's mind at all, but I enjoyed being able to discuss it and again, like do something different on the podcast. 'cause again, we a lot of times agree on most things. So we, did both had our pretty set opinions on that.

[00:27:25] So it was just really fun, and if you know from when I was regularly on the podcast, I love anything to do with the holidays. So that was also incorporated as one of my highlights because it was a holiday-themed episode. And then we had our little lively debate. So that was my, that's my pick.

[00:27:41] And it's dear and dear to my heart. That episode.

[00:27:46] Jen: I know that was so much fun because yeah, we both have a passion for pop culture, and so to be able to work through a common debate in pop culture circles, yeah, it's, it may not be out there as much as is Die Hard a holiday movie, but I think for us, perhaps it's more impactful. Yeah.

[00:28:07] Ashley: Yes, that was a surprisingly heated situation. I was like, Oh, and also I don't have any stake in this, so how interesting to be caught in a sudden crossfire of what is normally a very peaceful podcast. But yes, it was definitely a fun and spirited debate. Um, what about you, Jen? What highlight comes up for you?

[00:28:27] Jen: So I love book events, and we were able to go to the Virginia Festival of the Book together twice. Once, we saw Beth Macy and Jarrett J. Krosoczka not together. Macy was in conversation with another author, Chris McGreal, about a related book. His is American Overdosed, The Opioid Tragedy in Three Acts, and  Krosoczka was speaking alone.

[00:28:52] And then we also saw Jason Reynolds and Laurie Halse Anderson together, and I love Macy and  Krosoczka, I will say individually, but the Reynolds and Anderson conversation was inspiring and emotional and challenging in all the best ways, and I think just seeing these two brilliant authors have an in-depth conversation about how people should write for teenagers

[00:29:21] was incredible. Both as someone who has teenagers and someone who is a teacher and works with teenagers every day. I appreciated their honesty and their vulnerability, and the way they are like that in real life and in their books. And so, yeah, I think anytime you can go to a book event. I love the National Book Festival every year, but being able to go with Ashley and Sara was

[00:29:43] amazing. Just because we got to experience that together and fan girl and learn and process and yeah. So the Virginia Festival of the Book, those two times, those were great experiences.

[00:29:54] Sara: And we got to meet Jason, too.

[00:29:55] Jen: My gosh.

[00:29:56] Sara: and have him sign our books. I love him as a person and an author, and I do the first chapter on Friday in my classroom, and I chose Ghost, which is one of his series to read, and so many students loved it, loved the first chapter. I ordered like six copies for my classroom.

[00:30:15] So he just has a way of speaking to young people that is unparalleled. And then likewise with Laurie Halse Anderson. I just finished her new historical fiction, Rebellion, 1776, and the way she writes. In such an accessible way for young people about things that are old, you know, like from hundreds of years ago, and she's just incredible.

[00:30:39] So yeah, that is one of the highlights of my life as a reader. And then being there with you both made it that much better. So, yeah, I love that. That was definitely a highlight for me, also.

[00:30:51] Ashley: Yeah, same. Yeah. I very rarely feel starstruck by meeting people, but we were like standing in line to meet him, and I was like, ladies, I might pass out. I mean, I just was like, I mean, it's what she said, Sara, like, I admire both of them so much, and it is just rare for me in any industry to really just feel like, oh my gosh, I'm seeing this person in real life.

[00:31:13] But I think I had that moment because both of them have so profoundly affected the reading world and the world at large. I mean, they both do a lot of social activism. Like they talk about really important social issues, they are writing to and for and about people who are often not represented in stories.

[00:31:30] And so I just think like, man, yeah, that was really a phenomenal moment.

[00:31:35] Sara: I have goosebumps thinking

[00:31:36] Jen: I know? It was so great. It was so great. Did you see that there's a new book in the Ghost series? It just came out.

[00:31:43] Sara: Oh, I did not.

[00:31:43] Jen: Yeah, so I got it from the library. I haven't read it yet, but yeah, it's, I have it on my little stack, so it's, coach is the new one.

[00:31:52] Sara: Oh, oh, that's awesome.

[00:31:54] Ashley: That will be cool.

[00:31:55] Jen: All right, Ashley, what is your highlight?

[00:31:58] Ashley: Well, I am gonna mention another one that I know that you all both enjoyed as well, but in 2020, we went to Pod Fest in Orlando and

[00:32:08] Sara: March 4th, so just put that.

[00:32:12] Ashley: Yes. So it was so impactful on my life in so many ways, and right, it was March 4th, so immediately after that, we had, I mean, literally the next week, we all started doing the, you know, staying at home for the pandemic.

[00:32:28] And, I think that part of why I have revisited that moment so many times in my mind is just that. On the COVID front, you know, I had this very special, very precious time with you all. We went to Universal Studios. We did a lot of fun things. We had this crazy trip down there.

[00:32:46] We got to a hotel that had no water at like 12:30 in the morning, then we were supposed to be doing the amusement park stuff. We could only fit it in if we went at like six the next morning, before the conference. And so, you know, we didn't get to our hotel till like three in the morning.

[00:33:01] We needed to get out very early the next morning. And so all those things were just very crazy. And yet we had this really great, very special time at Universal Studios and had fun. Then we did this conference, and I mean, listeners know, I mean, this is my job now.

[00:33:16] Like I'm a podcast producer, I'm a strategist. I'm in that industry, and I think that in a lot of ways, though I did not know it or see it at the time, that moment of going and being, I mean, I remember all of us were just like, there were other people who do this thing, you know? Just us feeling like suddenly we saw this community of people who we had never experienced before, and we saw a lot of people speaking really passionately about something that we had been doing for a couple of years at that point, but very much in like a for fun way.

[00:33:47] And this podcast is still very much for fun, but I think it transformed my view of what podcasting could be by being in a space with thousands of other people who were doing this thing and loving this thing that, like, otherwise had kind of just been the three of us doing. And so I feel like when I think back about transformative moments, like for me, that really was something that profoundly changed my life.

[00:34:09] Sara: That's a great pick. I mean, what I think too is like, it's like the before and after, you know, of COVID and being there. You had to wear a sticker if you were open to hugs. Do you remember this? And it was just like hand sanitizer everywhere.

[00:34:23] But then we went to Universal Studios, and it was deserted. So we got to ride every single thing in Harry Potter land. But then in the back of our minds, we're like, we should be here. Why is there nobody else here? You know? But it was just such an amazing trip again, being there with you guys and getting to have that experience of like being amongst podcasters who were so passionate about what they did. It was awesome. I love that too.

[00:34:51] Jen: I know.

[00:34:52] Sara: Any time I travel with you two, it's a highlight for sure.

[00:34:55] Ashley: I think that too, that like part of what, when I was thinking back about this, I was like, we need to go on another trip. I think in my adult life, especially after having kids, but even before, I really haven't been great about making time to go on trips with my friends, and I think that's part of why it was so special to me is because it was so much.

[00:35:12] fun to be out of my family life, out of my work life, and just with my friends, having a really great time and being in that moment. And for sure, with the pandemic after, it was, like I said, I just was a mental space that I could go to and like hold onto amid what were some really hard times, you know, after that for all of us.

[00:35:30] And so, and we've laughed many times after where you all were like, she would be wearing masks, and I was like, oh, duh. I mean, I am someone who was the first in line to get a vaccine. Okay. But I just was like, oh, things have been blown outta proportion. And I was completely wrong.

[00:35:45] I mean, I just think, you know, I remember you all being worried and me being like, we travel all the time. It's totally fine. And then like, you know, five days later, we were like, oh, everything's closed. We are wearing masks. And we definitely should not have gone, but we didn't know that.

[00:36:00] Sara: Remember being in the airport on the way home, and Ashley's like, Don't watch the TV. Don't watch the TV, because everything is like COVID COVID. And I'm like in a full panic, and she's…

[00:36:10] Ashley: I really was like,

[00:36:11] Sara: Shelikese…

[00:36:12] Ashley: We gotta go home.

[00:36:13] Sara: Like, gotta get home.

[00:36:14] Ashley: We can't stay here. But it was for sure, there was that moment where it was that tipping point of me being dismissive to all of a sudden being like, ladies, I think I've made a mistake. And also, we still have to go home.

[00:36:26] Sara: Oh my gosh, that's so funny and also terrifying.

[00:36:29] Jen: I was gonna say the weirdness of that nostalgia trip is so, yeah, because it was just that last gasp of freedom before we locked down and were, you know, I was wiping everything with Clorox wipes when we brought it home from the grocery store and just the quickness of that turn 'cause I'd been reading about things happening elsewhere and.

[00:36:52] But yeah, just when it hit, it hit very quickly.

[00:36:56] Sara: Yeah.

[00:36:57] Ashley: Again, it should have been much earlier, and we just didn't realize. So, I mean, I think it was just a, you know, there were signs, but you really had to be paying more attention than obviously I was for what those signs were. And then all of a sudden, yeah, for us, I mean, and every place was different.

[00:37:13] But in Virginia, you know, once we stayed home, it was, oh, it's gonna be till spring break. And then it was like, oh no, it's gonna be, you know, we're gonna add a couple weeks onto spring break. And then all of a sudden, like for a lot of us, we did not leave for, well, you know, for a long time. We stayed home.

[00:37:27] Like my kids were out the whole next school year, you know, so anyway, I feel like we could not have known what was coming, but like I said, it was kinda like a fantasy, you know, I would just revisit this like, very special time with you two and be like, okay, we have some fun moments.

[00:37:40] So, uh, well, we are gonna end today with the Lit Chat game. Sara, I don't know if you know we're doing that, but surprise.

[00:37:46] Sara: I saw the lit at the game when the rundown, but I like, I don't know what it's gonna be.

[00:37:49] Ashley: When Sara, when we wrapped up with, 2022 season, we were still doing gimme one, which was a lot of fun, but we were finding that we were running out of, um, gimme one topics. And so some months we'd be like, what are we gonna talk about this time? I don't know. We've already talked about blank and blank, like, and so anyway, these days, Sara, we do the lit chat game.

[00:38:10] one episode a month, and then we do our Unabridged favorite the other time. And so we have found that the topics, usually, we have something to say between the two of them. So anyway.

[00:38:21] Jen: All right, so today's topic is. Is there a particular book or series you associate most with your childhood?

[00:38:30] Ashley: Okay. All right. Sara, what do you think?

[00:38:33] Sara: Oh my gosh. I was a series queen. Like, and I still like a series, but I've learned in my later life that I only like a trilogy, and after a trilogy, I'm out.

[00:38:44] Which goes with the long books, you know, it's just, I need it to be wrapped up. But when I was a kid, I loved Sweet Valley Twins, and then later Sweet Valley High.

[00:38:55] And then I also loved, there was one called the Fabulous Five, which was a group of five girls. And I love that. So I mean, if there was a series I was in and I would go to B. Dalton booksellers. I would get paper gift certificates for Christmas, and I would go and sit on the floor in front of the series and just get stacks that I could go right into the next one.

[00:39:16] And so, Series were one of the things that made me an avid reader because I just, I had to know what was gonna be next. So if it was a series for YA or middle grade, I was there. So yeah, the series had a huge impact on me as a reader.

[00:39:30] Ashley: I love that, and I'm with you about the trilogy. Now these days, I, duology is even better.

[00:39:35] Sara: Yeah. Even better. Yes.

[00:39:38] Ashley: But yes. What about you, Jen?

[00:39:40] Jen: Yeah, mine's also a series. I also read Sweet Valley Twins and Sweet Valley High, but I loved a mystery series when I was a kid. So I read

[00:39:47] the classic Nancy Drews, but then they kept trying to bring them back, and they would remake them for the modern setting. And so there were at least two other iterations of Nancy Drew series that I read. Bobsy Twins, Hardy Boys. Trixie Belden, I read all of them.

[00:40:05] So we would go to the library and I would just check out stacks and stacks of books. And if there were any mystery series in our Scholastic little book flyers when I was in elementary school, I actually cleared through high school because we did not have a bookstore in my hometown. We had to drive a very long way for a bookstore, and you couldn't order books online.

[00:40:24] So Scholastic saved me. So yeah, I would just buy, you know, just the stacks of those mystery series. So I really loved them.

[00:40:32] Sara: I love Nancy Drew too. I wouldn't read the older ones, but the ones with the new like flashy covers. I really like those too. Yeah, I like the mystery also.

[00:40:41] Jen: All right. How about you, Ashley?

[00:40:43] Ashley: Yeah, I thought Nancy Drew. I read a lot of those. I also, there was a gymnastics series that I loved, that I was trying to look very quickly to see if I could find what it was called. 'Cause I don't remember anything about it. When I was in elementary school, I was reading those, so I don't remember the name of the series, but I read it was one that had just tons and tons of books, and I read a lot of those, and then also, like my dad had read Watership Down when I was a kid.

[00:41:05] Jen: Oh, wow.

[00:41:06] Ashley: And as an adult now, I'm like, really? That was the thing. But like, I just remember that, and I don't even remember the book particularly, but I do remember him reading it, and so that one came to mind, and I think like that tone of book, I think like was appealing to me for a long time.

[00:41:23] So anyway, those are some things that came to mind. I will say, like for all the reading I do now, I actually feel like, and I mean, I wound up like I was an English major. I mean, I very much like leaned into the literary stuff, but honestly, it has not been until my adult life and meeting you all and, you know, kind of learning more about how to read more for fun and wider, that I feel like my reading life as an adult is a much more robust, life than it was when I was a kid. I would say.

[00:41:52] Sara: Yeah. I think too, for me, being a part of the podcast really pushed me to read things that I normally wouldn't pick up. So like when I look back on my time being on the podcast, I am always so grateful because it has made me, number one, open myself up to a lot more diverse authors and like just reading nonfiction because I normally, I used to never read nonfiction, so like reading nonfiction and just the breadth of what I read has been impacted so much by my time on the podcast, so I really appreciate that and my time being on, I still miss it sometimes.

[00:42:32] Jen: Are gonna make me cry. Yeah, I know. Just been, it's so special. It's been so special. And just the friendship. We were already friends, but it definitely deepened our friendship so much. So, yeah.

[00:42:42] Sara: Yes.

[00:42:43] Ashley: Yeah, I think that, like I was saying earlier about, just like discussing things in a meaningful way and how I think what I really appreciate is like when you do a project like this. You make space as an adult to do a thing that you otherwise just don't get to do. And I think like that part is like really powerful

[00:43:01] and something I appreciate because I think like, you know, we try to have hobbies and stuff like that, and it is hard to like fit those things in. But I think like stuff like this, where you do have that structure in place, makes it more where you get to do the thing that you otherwise wouldn't do.

[00:43:15] That's both fun, but also like stretches you like, and you know, it encourages you to kind of keep showing up, keep doing the thing. But for sure, like I had never read romance books until the podcast, which I mean, thank goodness during COVID, let me tell you, it is very fortunate that I had discovered that I liked romance books because I was really looking for things that were fun and felt safe, and that.

[00:43:38] You know, I thought that things would work out. Like I needed things to work out. And so, you know, I think about that like thrillers and true crime. Like, again, those still aren't my favorite, but I think there are ones I have gotten to read horror, that I've gotten to read books that are brilliant that I wouldn't have read if it hadn't been for us, saying like, Hey, we're gonna discuss this thing, or like, let's give this one a try.

[00:43:58] And yet, like you said, Sara, I mean, it's just totally changed the way that I read, which is really cool.

[00:44:02] Jen: Happy 300th ladies.

[00:44:04] Sara: Thanks for having me back. I have loved every second of it.

[00:44:09] Jen: Yay. Thanks for coming back.

[00:44:10] Ashley: Well, thank you, listeners, for tuning in, and those of you who have been tuning in all this time, we appreciate you and we love reading with you and hearing what you think about the books and, um, that you hang out in the Unabridged community space with us. So thanks so much for listening.

[00:44:24] Jen: Thank you.

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