294: Maureen Johnson's TRULY DEVIOUS - May 2025 Book Club

Have you read Truly Devious by Maureen Johnson—or maybe even the whole series? In this May 2025 Book Club episode, we’re diving into the twisty world of Ellingham Academy with Stevie Bell and company. But first, we kick things off with a Bookish Check-In. Ashley’s reading Somewhere Beyond the Sea by TJ Klune (yes, the sequel to The House in the Cerulean Sea), and Jen shares her thoughts on Nnedi Okorafor’s Death of the Author.

Then we dive into all things Truly Devious—what makes Stevie such a compelling protagonist, how Johnson balances multiple mysteries across timelines, and why this one’s a must-read for fans of dark academia and character-driven whodunits. We wrap up with perfect book pairings, plus a few favorite things outside the reading life.

Bookish Check-in

Ashley - T. J. Klune’s Somewhere Beyond the Sea (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Jen - Nnedi Okorafor’s Death of the Author (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Our Book Club Pick

Maureen Johnson'sTruly Devious (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Our Pairings

Ashley - Deanna Raybourn’s A Curious Beginning (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Jen - Holly Jackson’s A Good Girl’s Guide to Murder (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

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Check out the full transcript: [00:00:33] Jen: Hi everyone and welcome to Unabridged. This is episode 2 94 and we are talking about Maureen Johnson's truly devious. It's our May, 2025 book club pick. Before we get started with that discussion, we're going to do our bookish check-in. Ashley, what's something you're reading?

[00:00:52] Ashley: One of the things I'm reading is TJ Klune's Somewhere Beyond the Sea. I wanted to read something I thought I would love, so I was like, this is what I want to read.

[00:01:04] I absolutely loved The House in the Cerulean Sea, and I love the characters and the sense of community and found family. I just adored that book.

[00:01:15] So this is the sequel to that. And in this one at the beginning, Linus and Arthur, are traveling back to the mainland, they're kind of leaving their like haven where they live with. The kids, all of whom are magical beings and all of whom they are hoping to adopt as their own children, but certainly treat as if they are their children. And they leave that safe space to go try to defend the rights of magical beings in the larger world.

[00:01:53] And all of that feels deeply and painfully resonant and. Because of course, while it's talking about. I should say, I recognize that we do not have Phoenixes in the streets. But I think that what Klune does so well is show the parallels between people who are amazing and larger than life, and yet also different from the status quo and how they can be beaten down by the systems that oppress them.

[00:02:27] And so you really just see that in the beginning. And Arthur goes to speak to these horrific and traumatic things that had happened in his childhood because of government structures. And he thinks that by telling that story he is going to... that it is worth the cost because it will be helping to make the right thing happen for the children on the island and also for the larger magical world. Yet. In a lot of ways it becomes an interrogation of Arthur and it becomes an attempt to trap him in a situation that then instead of him freely volunteering to come and speak to this thing that happened in his childhood, it becomes this like assessment of him. And so that happens right at the beginning, but then they also have a new

[00:03:21] child that needs, a teenager who needs a home, a Yeti who needs a home. And so there's also this transfer happening of that teenager. And then there's also the aftermath of that hearing that is going to play out in this story. And so I haven't gotten that far yet into it, Same things I loved before about Klune.

[00:03:42] I really love… It is hard. It's sad. It's a sad time to be reading that kind of account, I think in some ways because it feels parallel to some of our societal things that we're working our way through. As a community. But, something that I love about Klune and think is really remarkable is how hopeful things can feel even though it's really hard.

[00:04:03] And so, I was reading the beginning on a plane and I kept being like, can I keep reading this in a public space because I may be sobbing at any moment. There is a lot of very frantic eye batting happening. A little fanning going on, but I think that it's also just really powerful. I think that's what I love about Klune is that ability to just really invite the reader into a space that is tender and powerful.

[00:04:28] And so that's all happening. So that is TJ Klune's Somewhere Beyond the Sea.

[00:04:33] Jen: Yeah, I love that so much. And I entered it with some trepidation because I love The House in the Cerulean Sea, just yeah, beyond anything, and so I was a little worried, but I felt like it was such a worthy sequel and just captured all of that magic again.

[00:04:51] Ashley: Yeah. Nice. What about you, Jen? What's something you're reading?

[00:04:55] Jen: I am reading Nnedi Okorafor's Death of the Author. This is part of a Buddy Reed on Instagram, and yeah, I'm really loving this. It's been a while since I read this sci-fi that is such sci-fi, it's pretty high sci-fi, I guess, that is so compelling. She's such a great author.

[00:05:16] It focuses on Zelu, who is an author and a writing professor, and it starts at her sister's wedding, and Zelu has long said that she is never going to get married, but she has a lot of siblings and most of them are married or are going to be married. so, she's feeling a little bit out of place, but of course is happy for her sibling.

[00:05:41] And while she's at the wedding, she finds out from her agent that her novel that she's been working on for years was rejected. And she gets a call from her department chair at the university to say that a really unpleasant interaction that she had with a student has resulted in her being fired. And so now, in addition to feeling a little outside of things at this wedding, she just feels like her life is falling apart.

[00:06:11] She was barely making it on her own in her own apartment. She feels like she's probably going to have to move back in with her parents, which she does not want to do. Yeah, so Zelu goes up to her hotel room. She's just distraught, and in this moment of just pure creativity and passion, she starts writing a novel.

[00:06:35] And it is a sci-fi novel about robots. And the novel that she had finished that was rejected, felt like work. This does not feel like work. So she does indeed move back in with her parents, and she spends the next, I can't remember exactly how long it is, but writing this book and it is immediately picked up and becomes a sensation.

[00:06:57] So another thing that is very important to know about Zelu is that when she was a child, she and her siblings and friends were playing. A game of tag and she climbed up a tree to get away from them and the tree broke and she fell, and she has been a paraplegic ever since. So she is in a wheelchair. Her parents, because of this, have always been a little extra protective of her, and as she becomes a sensation because of this book, this inventor, the scientist reaches out to her and says that he has created

[00:07:35] these legs that are fueled by AI that can help her walk again, and her family is just passionately opposed because they feel like there's a risk involved but Zelu really wants the chance to walk. She's always been an explorer. She's always wanted to try new things, and she feels like this is worth trying.

[00:07:59] I think I'm going to leave it there. I'm a little further than that, but I feel like if I go any further, it's going to be in big spoiler territory. But yeah, I'm just loving it so far. I love the story she's writing. You continue seeing chapters from it, like those are interspersed in the novels. So you'll get Zelu's story and then you get these robot stories in this world where there's

[00:08:21] very little humanity left, and both of them are unfurling in these sort of parallel tracks that I'm really enjoying. And I just think Zelu is such a great character. She's complex. She makes some bad decisions, she. Sometimes has no filter and says things that she immediately regrets. But I just think, yeah, it's been a lot of, it's been a great reading experience that I'm really loving and I can't wait to see that something just happened that I'm on the edge of my seat to see how it's going to develop.

[00:08:51] So, that is Nnedi Okorafor's Death of the Author.

[00:08:55] Ashley: Oh my gosh, Jen, I, I love Okorafor and I have read several, several of her books, but it's been a while, so yeah, that makes me want to pick this one up.

[00:09:04] Jen: Yeah, it's, I think you would really enjoy it. I mean, we'll see how it ends, but I have a feeling it's going to be great. 

[00:09:10] Ashley: Yes, I was like, the premise, I mean, the title makes me wonder a little bit, but anyway.

[00:09:16] Jen: Alright, well, we are going to switch over to our discussion of Truly Devious. I'll read a quick synopsis from the author and then we'll get started. “Ellingham Academy is a famous private school in Vermont for the brightest thinkers and ventures and artists. It was founded by Albert Ellingham, an early 20th century tycoon who wanted to make a wonderful place full of riddles, twisting pathways and gardens.

[00:09:36] A place, he said, where learning is a game. Shortly after the school opened, his wife and daughter were kidnapped. The only real clue was a mocking riddle listing methods of murder. Signed with a frightening pseudonym. Truly Devious. It became one of the great unsolved crimes of American history. True crime aficionado.

[00:09:55] Stevie Bell is set to begin her first year at Ellingham Academy and she has an ambitious plan. She will solve this cold case that is, she will solve the case when she gets a grip on her demanding new school life and her housemates, the inventor, the novelist, the actor, the artist, and the jokester. But something strange is happening.

[00:10:12] Truly Devious makes a surprise return and death revisits Ellingham Academy, the past has crawled out of its grave. Someone has gotten away with murder.” All right. Well, Ashley and I, I will say, had both read this before, so, uh, yeah, we were texting a little bit during the reading process, so Yeah. But what, what are your overall impressions, Ashley?

[00:10:35] Ashley: Oh gosh. I have to say, this is one where the first time I read it. did, I just wasn't in the right place, I guess. So I would, I felt like maybe it was a little overhyped, and then I started book two and quickly devoured the rest of the series. So it's funny because if I'm being totally honest, I would say that I did not quite catch it the first time I read the first book and then came to absolutely love Stevie and her friends and the way that the whole story is told. This time I went into it, loving it, and I did enjoy revisiting because I think it is a brilliant story. I think it is a well told mystery. I love the parallel timelines. So honestly, overall impression, the first time was like me, and then as I continued the series, which I don't remember exactly why I picked it back up, but I listened.

[00:11:30] I read the first book on my e-reader. For the second book, I listened to the audio, I loved the audio, and then I was totally sucked in. And then, like I said, I've read the rest of the series since then. and then this time it was just fun to revisit because I loved seeing it all unfurl again, but with a place where I was like, I absolutely love this.

[00:11:47] I think it was a brilliant mystery. So yeah, overall impression is I love it and I am excited to dig into why it works so well and why people like it so much. But what about you, Jen?

[00:11:57] Jen: Yeah, I loved it. Absolutely, completely both times. I can't remember. I could, I should look back. I'm pretty sure I read the print both times. I did read the print this time. I may have listened to an audio of one of the books at some point. But yeah, I just really, I love Maureen Johnson. I think she is such a smart storyteller, and I love that

[00:12:22] this mystery has such character at its heart, and so I think. I was really focused on that this time. I'll probably talk about that more in a minute. But yeah, I just, it swept me away. Again, I will say I immediately knew that I would have to continue rereading the whole series because I don't exactly remember how everything plays out.

[00:12:42] And man, she is just so great at the cliffhanger and it’s building suspense and of creating... that's probably why you picked up book two. 'cause even though you didn't love Book one, you still want to know what happens. And so yeah, I'm like, Ooh, how quickly. Can I get through the rest of my list of things I have to read to pick up books, 2, 3, 4, et cetera?

[00:13:02] Ashley: Yes. Yeah, that's a good point that this is not one, I mean, if you're listening, you probably already read it, but this is not one that is easy... If you care at all about what's happening. There is no resolution in this first book that you really are wanting to know what those next steps are going to be.

[00:13:17] And in fact, I was, I read and listened this time, and I texted Jen right after, and I was like. Oh my gosh, I forgot it stopped right here. Like what? So I did not expect that, and then all of a sudden I was like, oh, it's over. Oh my gosh, it's over. and it's funny because I was both shocked and then also vividly remembered that scene once it happened, and that was the last scene. I was like, oh yes, I actually remember this from last time.

[00:13:42] So yeah, definitely a cliffhanger.

[00:13:44] Jen: So what is one? Yeah, what's one element that worked for you?

[00:13:50] Ashley: I think something I really love that I think Johnson does so well is show how complex teenagers are and I think Jen and I have both spent a lot of our careers working with teenagers and I love it when people can really showcase that. I mean, I think there's lots of criticism in society of teens and like saying that, I don't know there, there's a lot of, like when I used to say that I taught high school, there were lots of.

[00:14:18] Sweeping statements made about what a saint I was, that I worked with these very difficult people all the time, and I think the truth is showcased here with Stevie and each of her friends that like, what's so exciting about teenagers is they are becoming their own people. And they are not constricted by some of the societal pressures that adults are like.

[00:14:44] They have not yet been shut down as much by society and their own limited thinking. And so they do believe, like Jen read in the synopsis, that they could go in a hundred years later almost, and solve a cold case that no one could solve. And I think that limitless possibility is just such a beautiful part of teenagers and I think she does it so well here.

[00:15:10] I love each of the characters. And I love how they're grappling with how different they are from their parents, and that's really unpacked with Stevie and with David and like, I just love all that because I think they're trying to figure out how to be their own people. But we can't help the things we carry.

[00:15:29] Like they cannot escape. David cannot escape his family. No matter what story he tries to write for himself in his past, he still has to grapple with the reality of his life. And Stevie also. And I just love that because I think that's really complicated, and you have these really smart kids. They've been given this amazing opportunity, but they don't, that opportunity does not

[00:15:53] negate their history that they're bringing with them and yet all of them care about that and are like trying to figure out how to carry that slash hide that, you know, whatever thing. And I think like all that's just really interesting. So I think that's something that really works for me is like this premise where everybody is new to the space, sets up for a very interesting study of different characters.

[00:16:16] Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I really love, you know, we get such a vivid sense of Stevie, but I think you're right that we see that through all of the secondary characters as well. I. And I do think it's because Maureen Johnson really has a clear idea who each of them is, and it's not just like, that's one thing I don't love about the synopsis is that single word, the part where it's like the inventor of the novelist, the actor, the artist, and the jokester.

[00:16:39] Because nowhere in the book does it give a sense that any of them is identified by the single word. They don't think about each other in that way. And so I think because there's such complexity, we're starting to think of all of them as multifaceted people and that only reinforces Stevie's uniqueness as well.

[00:17:02] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Jen? What's something that worked for you?

[00:17:05] Jen: I'm so torn 'cause there are so much about this book that works for me. I do think. All right. I'll go with that sort of locked room mystery feel. Of course, it's not a locked room, but it is a very isolated campus and that is one of the things that made the previous investigation of the Ellen Ham murder so complex is it is a very isolated spot.

[00:17:29] Not murder, kidnapping. And then, well, anyway, it gets complicated if, you know, if you've read the book, you know, but yeah, you, you're, it's very isolated. It's hard to get in and out, and so you're really looking at a limited cast of suspects, a limited cast of characters who could have done this. Which anytime there's a limitation and a mystery, it makes it more fascinating because there are only so many people who could have done it.

[00:17:54] There are only so many things they could have used to do it. And as it's looking at the, the newest murder of Hayes, you see all of that come into play. And I think that balance of this is a cheap 'cause. I'm going to say both things. That balance of the original. Mystery, that original cold case that Stevie wants to solve.

[00:18:16] And then this new unexpected one, I think has done so well. Johnson's able to balance the narrative really well. This isn't one, I never wanted one of the stories to end, but I also didn't ever feel like one was suffering in comparison to the other. She's able to balance them both so beautifully. So that's two things.

[00:18:34] So yeah, the whole locked room, locked campus idea. I mean, that's why we all love boarding school. Academy type books and then that dark academia kind of thing. And then, yeah, the balancing of the two storylines I think both worked really well.

[00:18:51] Ashley: Yeah. That was another interesting thing about rereading because I don't remember a lot of the details. It's been years since I read this series, but I do remember. the culprit of the early on. I don't know if that was true for you, Jen, like I remember that. And so rereading, it's always satisfying for a reader in a really good mystery series to then go back and look at how all that was unfurling at the beginning.

[00:19:12] Because, of course, you can't know that in a really good mystery where you cannot know what it is going to be in the end. It's satisfying to see how all of it's lined up. So I feel like there is that, and for sure it's because, in part, of that remote campus, and how that then opened the door to some of this stuff, going down.

[00:19:30] And then I think also with Hayes's situation, we see how badly everyone wants to believe that it's an accident and also kind of how absurd that is, you know? And so it's like this idea of how it is an effective crime in the sense that it is believable that it could have been an accident. But then like also, that doesn't make any sense.

[00:19:51] And so I feel like that tension is really well done.

[00:19:57] Jen: Yeah. All right. Well, let's each share a quotation we'd like to discuss. Which one do you want to share, Ashley?

[00:20:04] Ashley: I had a hard time choosing 'cause there were so many things I love and wanted to highlight about the series, but I'm going to go with this one. This is just Stevie's perspective. She says, "That was something they taught you in anxiety therapy. The thoughts may come, but you don't have to chase them all. It was sort of the opposite of good detective work in which you had to follow every lead." And something I really love, again, going back to Johnson drawing really complex characters and showing them fully, is that we see Stevie's anxiety as an integral part of her character, and we see her panic attack.

[00:20:41] We see her having anxiety and we see her grappling with it and knowing how to, sometimes knowing and sometimes not knowing how to handle it. And I just love that because I think that the very thing that makes Stevie so brilliant as a detective is also the thing that is so hard for her to carry as a person, and I think that's often true.

[00:21:05] So I just really like that because I think that we don't see her... The book is not about anxiety, and yet we do experience it with her. And in some moments she's very right to have an anxious reaction, and then other times she is recognizing that. Her body is responding to something that really isn't a threat, and she's having to work her way through that using her mind, but then her mind is often the thing that she is battling, and I just think

[00:21:37] that is the journey of mental health and how complex that can be and how complex that can be for characters and for people. And again, going back to teenagers that like teenagers are often, those things are both developing slash getting worse for them, as opposed to an adult who maybe has been managing something for part of their life.

[00:21:59] And also like in Stevie's case, I mean she's brilliant. And she is brilliant in a way that is only possible because of this heightened sense of things, which then is really hard for her to navigate. So I just love that because again, I think Johnson is showing complex people who, like you said before Jen, they're not just one thing.

[00:22:20] She's not just the detective. She is a complex person who has a lot to offer and also a lot to carry. And it's like navigating that. And then I think we also see that sense of her wanting to have found family and getting some of that, like when Jenelle helps her early on when she has the panic attack.

[00:22:37] And her realizing that there is a way to get help from people that I think is really beautiful.

[00:22:42] Jen: Mm-hmm. I think her figuring out how to navigate those moments on her own, but also employing that new support system is so powerful. Yeah. And I just love Janelle, like I.

[00:22:57] Ashley: Yes.

[00:22:58] Jen: This gets back to my earlier thing. She's such a great friend and just, you know, the things that Stevie is worried about, the way that she can then just say, oh my gosh, yes.

[00:23:08] I didn't mean to ignore you. I'm just really excited about Vi, and just put it out there. And I think she's such a good model for Stevie in considering her own journey. Yeah, I really, I love that. Yeah. That's a great one.

[00:23:22] Ashley: What about you, Jen? What's your quote?

[00:23:24] Jen: I'm going with one that happens really early in the novel 'cause I think it has great payoff. It's when Stevie's parents are touring the academy the first time and her dad says, "'Stevie thinks she's Sherlock Holmes.' Her father said he liked to make these kinds of remarks that sounded like jokes and may have been well-intentioned on some level, but always had a hint of shade."

[00:23:45] And I think it's just that sense of, again, this is a very teenage thing of Teenagers who have a sense of who they are and who they're becoming and how… And I have a kid who's about to be 18 in a week and a half. So I feel this deeply. And the teenagers' sense that they're establishing their own identities and that the way they see themselves is the way they are and that they have the right to control that.

[00:24:15] And him feeling like he has to somehow make excuses for her is just so horrific. And I'm like, I hope I don't do this for my kid. Like the things that make her unique and quirky and brilliant are the things that shine for her and he's downplaying them so she can fit in. And I do think her parents are a distinct type of people.

[00:24:41] Johnson does a great job developing that. But yeah, so then one of the things I loved about the book so much was watching her journey to be more confident in living out her sense of her identity and of having people who take seriously the fact that she is really smart and she does think things through, and she can

[00:25:00] be like Sherlock Holmes in putting together clues that other people have totally missed and that she can figure out. And I really love watching that journey, which I know continues through the series, right? It's not one of those things that, oh, yay, I accomplished it. No backsliding. When you faced questionable judgment your whole life, it's not like that goes away.

[00:25:20] But I love watching her kind of live into that.

[00:25:24] Ashley: Yes, absolutely. I think all those interactions with her parents, while limited, because she's in the residential setting and so she's away from them, are also powerful and they just show that like shadow over her that she's trying so hard to escape.

[00:25:41] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Such a good book. Okay. We are now going to each recommend a pairing. What do you want to recommend, Ashley?

[00:25:48] Ashley: Oh man,

[00:25:49] I really struggled with what to recommend for this because there were a couple that came to my mind that were young adults and therefore had some similarities that I think are important.

[00:25:58] But I just love the Truly Devious series and I could not think of any that I felt like were on the par of the of this series. So I'm going to go with a different direction. I wanted to recommend Deanna Raybourn's A Curious Beginning. And this one is not young adult, but it is another...

[00:26:20] there were a lot of things I thought it did have in common. So this is Veronica Speedwell Number One. And the reason I wanted to recommend it is because Veronica Speedwell is also a very quirky, non-traditional character who is paving her own way. She is steadfast in what she's going to accomplish, and nothing is going to get in her way.

[00:26:44] So I felt like there are similarities between Stevie's character and Veronica's character, but this is set in 1887 in London. The other thing I really liked is the way that the mystery unfurls, and how I think both of these have like a sort of heisty feel to them, even though neither one is a heist, but it is that like propulsive situation and a series of events that are unfurling for the reader.

[00:27:10] And the reader is trying to put together what happened in the past with what's going on in the present, and then reconcile that in order to figure out the mystery. So in this one, Veronica had been raised by a couple of aunts who were unmarried. When the last, the last of those two dies, Veronica is still pretty young, but she is now on her own and old enough to be on her own, and then all these sort of bizarre things start happening.

[00:27:40] So the first thing that happens when she comes back from the service for the aunt, the house is being robbed. And she doesn't think a whole lot of that because she's kind of like, well, people knew that I would be at this thing. And like it's not, you know, it was women living in this place by themselves, and so she's very dismissive of it.

[00:27:57] But then other things start happening, also, and as these bizarre things happen, somebody approaches her who's like you, your life is in danger and we need to go. We have got to leave. You need to trust me and I need to try to help take you somewhere that could be safe. And so then she winds up traveling with this baron who tells her these things and she meets this guy Stoker, who is super curmudgeonly and is a scientist.

[00:28:26] And she's a scientist. And so there's like all this stuff about, again, like great characters, weird things happening, not. Easy explanations. She's attempting to just reconcile those explanations like Stevie with the current circumstances. You know, I think everybody knew that that prior mystery was definitely a mystery.

[00:28:46] But then with the things that are happening currently, she's like trying to be dismissive of it. And we see that with Veronica who's like trying to rationalize and make sense of, and not let her kind of imagination get carried away with her. And yet we see a really smart person who is able to unpack these complicated things.

[00:29:05] And so, yeah, I think there's a lot of differences between them. But I did want to recommend it because I think it is also... and this is another one where you read the first one and then you want to keep going. So I wanted to recommend it for that reason too. 'cause I think it's a great start to a really compelling series.

[00:29:18] So again, that is Deanna Raybourn's A Curious Beginning.

[00:29:22] Jen: That's such a great pick. I love that series. I'm still in the middle of it, so I've not finished it. I think I've read the first three books, but yes, I

[00:29:29] Ashley: I think you introduced me, Jen. You definitely introduced me to Raybourn

[00:29:32] So I had read Raybourn's Killers of a Certain Age, which, oh my gosh, I loved that. Also, it's not like a perfect pairing for this, but holy moly, it's a great book. And I think Jen, you had suggested that one to me or told us about it on the podcast or something.

[00:29:44] So yes, I will definitely read more of Rayborn. What about you, Jen? What's your pairing?

[00:29:50] Jen: So this one's pretty on the nose, but if you have not read, Holly Jackson's A Good Girl's Guide to Murder, I think that book has so many parallels to this one. It is about a teenager who, for her senior project, is going to solve a cold case on a podcast, and it is of a. Someone she knew… she was much younger than her.

[00:30:17] Her name's Andy Bell, who was murdered when she was a senior, and everyone thought that her boyfriend, Sal Singh did it. But Pip is convinced that he didn't actually do it. Sal was someone she also knew who had always been very kind to her. And there are just some strange things about the way he confessed, about the way his confession came about, and then he died immediately after, and about the way all of that happened that make her suspicious that the true story has not been told.

[00:30:48] So she starts her own investigation. The podcast part of it's really fun and. I don't think the series as a whole holds up as well as the Truly Devious series does. But that first book, I got a lot of the same zing that I get from Truly Devious. I will say it has been adapted and that adaptation was really fascinating because they moved it to England and they changed a whole bunch of things.

[00:31:14] So if you've seen the show, it's still worth going back and reading the book. 'Cause I did like the book better. So yeah, that is Holly Jackson's A Good Girl's Guide to Murder.

[00:31:25] Ashley: Yeah, I've heard good things about that one, Jen, but I have not read

[00:31:27] Jen: Yeah, it's fun. I did that one on audio and that was really well done. And the podcast parts are great on audio.

[00:31:33] Ashley: nice.

[00:31:34] Jen: Yeah. Alright, well, how many bookish hearts would you give this one, Ashley?

[00:31:38] Ashley: Uh, definitely five. I love this series. What about you?

[00:31:40] Jen: Same, easy, same.

[00:31:43] Ashley: But I will say back to people, if you did not love this first one, I loved it more and more the further I got into

[00:31:49] the series. So,

[00:31:51] Jen: Alright, well, we're going to wrap up our episode with our unabridged favorites. Ashley, what do you want to talk about today?

[00:31:57] Ashley: I think I want to share 30 Rock. We just rewatch the pilot of that and I think we probably will go back and rewatch that series. I. Love so many things about that series. And recently Amy Poehler now has a podcast out called Good Hang, which is another favorite. So I listened to the first couple of those podcast episodes and Tina Fey is on the very first one, and it's like just a super sweet conversation between two people who are clearly...

[00:32:25] I mean, I really admire both of them a lot, but like also they're just good friends and so that made me want to go back and revisit some of their work. And yeah, I love 30 Rock. I had forgotten how it all started, so it was fun to like go back to the very beginning and just all the crazy things that are happening and the way that Tina Fey's character is trying so hard to hold up a show and how it's both like

[00:32:49] just a show for entertainment and also is like a really important thing for people culturally. It just like, as part of, you know, like the shows matter and they do important things. And so I feel like it really gets into that right away, which is a lot of fun. So yeah, 30 Rock is what I'm going to go with and we'll see if we stay with it, but I am enjoying rewatching.

[00:33:06] What about you, Jen?

[00:33:08] Jen: I am absolutely obsessed with The Pit, which is available on Max and, okay, so context. I was a huge ER fan back in the day. I. I don't know if I made it through the final season 'cause things kind of fell off. But those early seasons were appointment television for my friends and me and oh my gosh, it was so compelling.

[00:33:29] And one of its stars, Noah Wiley, is the star of the pit back in the ER and the showrunner, John Wells is the showrunner again. This one though, the premise is that it is one shift in the ER and every episode is an hour. So it starts at 7:00 AM and then you get 8:00 AM. So you're just seeing these...

[00:33:53] it's a teaching hospital, so you see these doctors in training, some of whom have more experience than others who are seeing what it's like to work in the er. For some of them it's a rotation. You see the senior residents, it's just great. And so you're getting like glimpses of their back stories, but it's really about the ER, and I will say,

[00:34:15] you know, it's of course stressful and high paced, and there's a lot of chaos. It also is dealing very upfront, like the, the waiting room is packed and people have been waiting for hours and hours and hours and they can't hire enough nurses and they might be taken over by this management company who's going to create strict rules around how long they can spend with patients.

[00:34:34] And they're obsessed with patient satisfaction scores. And Noah Wiley is in charge of it all, and so you just see him trying to put patient care at the forefront, but navigating all of these other pressures. It is brilliant. We're a little more than halfway through. There are 15 episodes, and it is one of the best things I've watched in a long time.

[00:34:55] It is absolutely amazing. So that is the pit available on Max.

[00:34:59] Ashley: Wow. That sounds intense.

[00:35:03] Jen: I was going to say, I don't know if it's an Ashley show.

[00:35:06] Ashley: It's probably not Ashley's show. I agree, but it does sound like... I can see that it would be very powerful.

[00:35:10] Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alright, well thank you all so much for listening. We'd love to know what you thought of Truly Devious, if you've read it, and what pairings you might recommend, and we'll catch you soon. Thanks./

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