303: Jean Meltzer's THE MATZAH BALL - December Book Club Encore

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Have you read Jean Meltzer yet, and are you in the mood for a holiday romance with real heart?

In this special encore episode, we’re bringing back our December 2021 Book Club episode (Ep. 207), featuring Jean Meltzer’s The Matzah Ball (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org), her delightful debut. We loved revisiting this one: it’s funny and festive, but it also has surprising depth as Meltzer thoughtfully explores chronic illness and the power (and weight) of keeping parts of yourself hidden. We also talk about the rich portrayal of Jewish traditions, the book’s strong family dynamics, and the second-chance chemistry between Rachel and Jacob.

If you’re new to Meltzer, this is a perfect place to start, especially since she’s also written another holiday romance we adore, The Eight Heartbreaks of Hanukkah (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm). We hope you enjoy this cozy throwback, and we’d love to hear what holiday reads you’re loving this season!

Bookish Check-in

Ashley - B. B. Alston’s Amari and the Night Brothers (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

Jen - Stephen King’s Billy Summers (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

Sara - Maureen Johnson’s Truly Devious (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

Our Book Club Pick - Main Discussion

Jean Meltzer’s The Matzah Ball (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

Our Pairings

Ashley - Talia Hibbert’s Get a Life, Chloe Brown (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

Jen - Sarah Adams’s The Match (Bookshop.org)

Sara - Beth O’Leary’s The Switch (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

Give Me One - One Ear Worm that Plagues You

Listen in to hear the ear worms that give us problems, and join us on Instagram on Monday for our Give Me One post where you can share yours!

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Bookish Check-in

Ashley was reading . . .

B. B. Alton’s Amari and the Night Brothers (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

"Amari Peters has never stopped believing her missing brother, Quinton, is alive. Not even when the police told her otherwise, or when she got in trouble for standing up to bullies who said he was gone for good.

"So when she finds a ticking briefcase in his closet, containing a nomination for a summer tryout at the Bureau of Supernatural Affairs, she’s certain the secretive organization holds the key to locating Quinton—if only she can wrap her head around the idea of magicians, fairies, aliens, and other supernatural creatures all being real.

"Now she must compete for a spot against kids who’ve known about magic their whole lives. No matter how hard she tries, Amari can’t seem to escape their intense doubt and scrutiny—especially once her supernaturally enhanced talent is deemed 'illegal.' With an evil magician threatening the supernatural world, and her own classmates thinking she’s an enemy, Amari has never felt more alone. But if she doesn’t stick it out and pass the tryouts, she may never find out what happened to Quinton."

Jen was reading . . .

Stephen King’s Billy Summers (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

"Billy Summers is a man in a room with a gun. He’s a killer for hire and the best in the business. But he’ll do the job only if the target is a truly bad guy. And now Billy wants out. But first there is one last hit. Billy is among the best snipers in the world, a decorated Iraq war vet, a Houdini when it comes to vanishing after the job is done. So what could possibly go wrong?

"How about everything.

"This spectacular can’t-put-it-down novel is part war story, part love letter to small town America and the people who live there, and it features one of the most compelling and surprising duos in King fiction, who set out to avenge the crimes of an extraordinarily evil man. It’s about love, luck, fate, and a complex hero with one last shot at redemption.

"You won’t put this story down, and you won’t forget Billy."

Sara was reading . . .

Maureen Johnson’s Truly Devious (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

"Ellingham Academy is a famous private school in Vermont for the brightest thinkers, inventors, and artists. It was founded by Albert Ellingham, an early twentieth century tycoon, who wanted to make a wonderful place full of riddles, twisting pathways, and gardens. 'A place,' he said, 'where learning is a game.'

Shortly after the school opened, his wife and daughter were kidnapped. The only real clue was a mocking riddle listing methods of murder, signed with the frightening pseudonym 'Truly, Devious.' It became one of the great unsolved crimes of American history.

"True-crime aficionado Stevie Bell is set to begin her first year at Ellingham Academy, and she has an ambitious plan: She will solve this cold case. That is, she will solve the case when she gets a grip on her demanding new school life and her housemates: the inventor, the novelist, the actor, the artist, and the jokester.

"But something strange is happening. Truly Devious makes a surprise return, and death revisits Ellingham Academy. The past has crawled out of its grave. Someone has gotten away with murder.

"The two interwoven mysteries of this first book in the Truly Devious series dovetail brilliantly, and Stevie Bell will continue her relentless quest for the murderers in books two and three."

Check out Jen's review of this series here.

Our Book Club Pick - Main Discussion

Jean Meltzer’s The Matzah Ball (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

"Oy! to the world

"Rachel Rubenstein-Goldblatt is a nice Jewish girl with a shameful secret: she loves Christmas. For a decade she’s hidden her career as a Christmas romance novelist from her family. Her talent has made her a bestseller even as her chronic illness has always kept the kind of love she writes about out of reach.

"But when her diversity-conscious publisher insists she write a Hanukkah romance, her well of inspiration suddenly runs dry. Hanukkah’s not magical. It’s not merry. It’s not Christmas. Desperate not to lose her contract, Rachel’s determined to find her muse at the Matzah Ball, a Jewish music celebration on the last night of Hanukkah, even if it means working with her summer camp archenemy—Jacob Greenberg.

"Though Rachel and Jacob haven’t seen each other since they were kids, their grudge still glows brighter than a menorah. But as they spend more time together, Rachel finds herself drawn to Hanukkah—and Jacob—in a way she never expected. Maybe this holiday of lights will be the spark she needed to set her heart ablaze. "

Our Pairings

Ashley recommended . . .

Talia Hibbert’s Get a Life, Chloe Brown (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

"Chloe Brown is a chronically ill computer geek with a goal, a plan, and a list. After almost—but not quite—dying, she’s come up with seven directives to help her 'Get a Life', and she’s already completed the first: finally moving out of her glamorous family’s mansion. The next items?

• Enjoy a drunken night out.

• Ride a motorcycle.

• Go camping.

• Have meaningless but thoroughly enjoyable sex.

• Travel the world with nothing but hand luggage.

• And... do something bad.

"But it’s not easy being bad, even when you’ve written step-by-step guidelines on how to do it correctly. What Chloe needs is a teacher, and she knows just the man for the job.

Redford ‘Red’ Morgan is a handyman with tattoos, a motorcycle, and more sex appeal than ten-thousand Hollywood heartthrobs. He’s also an artist who paints at night and hides his work in the light of day, which Chloe knows because she spies on him occasionally. Just the teeniest, tiniest bit.

"But when she enlists Red in her mission to rebel, she learns things about him that no spy session could teach her. Like why he clearly resents Chloe’s wealthy background. And why he never shows his art to anyone. And what really lies beneath his rough exterior."

Jen recommended . . .

Sarah Adams’s The Match (Bookshop.org)

"Having worked for Southern Service Paws for a few years now, I like to think I'm prepared for just about any client meeting under the sun. I am dead wrong.

"The day I meet with single dad, Jacob Broaden, about potentially matching his daughter with one of our service dogs, I learn a few valuable lessons.

"1) Always set my alarm clock.

2) Single dads are way hotter than I previously thought.

3) It is possible to go from fantasizing about kissing someone to wishing they would be run over by a truck in a matter of two minutes.

"Unfortunately, I don't hold that opinion of him for very long. Not when he shows me a different side of himself--one that's sweet as maple syrup and hot as apple pie fresh out of the oven. Too bad this guy is so far out of my league that I shouldn't even be allowed to enter the game. Jake doesn't seem to get that memo though. And after a few days of working closely with him and his daughter, he starts looking at me with fire in his eyes, making me dream of something I probably shouldn't...

"A family."

Sara recommended . . .

Beth O’Leary’s The Switch (Libro.fm | Bookshop.org)

"Leena is too young to feel stuck.

"Eileen is too old to start over.

"Maybe it's time for The Switch...

"Ordered to take a two-month sabbatical after blowing a big presentation at work, Leena escapes to her grandmother Eileen's house for some overdue rest. Newly single and about to turn eighty, Eileen would like a second chance at love. But her tiny Yorkshire village doesn't offer many eligible gentlemen... So Leena proposes a solution: a two-month swap. Eileen can live in London and look for love, and Leena will look after everything in rural Yorkshire.

"But with a rabble of unruly OAPs to contend with, as well as the annoyingly perfect - and distractingly handsome - local schoolteacher, Leena learns that switching lives isn't straightforward. Back in London, Eileen is a huge hit with her new neighbours, and with the online dating scene. But is her perfect match nearer to home than she first thought?"

Full Transcript for Episode

[00:00:32] Jen: Hey, everyone. Welcome to Unabridged. Today, we are re-releasing one of our past book club episodes. This was episode 207. We released it in December of 2021, and it is about Jean Meltzer' The Matzah Ball, which was her debut novel. We love this book and felt like it was a really good time to re-release this because she actually has a new holiday

.[00:00:53] romance that I absolutely loved. It's called the Eight Heartbreaks of Hanukkah. So if you haven't discovered Meltzer yet, do yourself a favor, pick up some of her books, and we hope you enjoy this re-release. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:01:13] Sara: Hello. Welcome to episode number 207. This is our holiday book club episode, and we are very excited today to talk to you about Jean Meltzer's The Matzah Ball. Before we get started, we wanna remind you that we have an ambassadors program that we really enjoy. The ambassadors are an awesome part of our community, and if you would like to find out more about that and join in, you can go to our website at www.unabridgepod.com/ambassadors and find out more about that program today.

[00:01:50] We're gonna, of course, get started with our bookish check-in.

[00:01:53] Ashley, what are you reading today?

[00:01:55] Ashley: So one of the books I'm reading, I'm actually listening to this one on audio, is B.B. Alston's Amari and the Night Brothers. And this one I've heard such great things about, this is a middle-grade book, and I have it come heavily recommended.

[00:02:10] Some of the ambassadors have read it, and I've seen good things about it there. And a couple of other people I keep up with on Instagram had been seeing how great it was, and just that they really enjoyed it, and that it was very compelling and really well done. And I. I was looking for that. So I started it the other day, and this one is really fascinating.

[00:02:29] It focused on Amari, and we find out very quickly that her brother, Quinto, had a very successful career; he's significantly older. I think he's 10 years older. He's significantly older than her, and he had a really amazing opportunity come his way for the special summer camp, and he went to that for several years.

[00:02:48] He then went to have this very. Prestigious but secretive career. And then he disappeared, and that's what we know about him. And Amari is determined to find out what happened. And so we see that early on, she is on a quest to figure out what happened to her brother Quinton. Also, we see for her early on that school is really tough.

[00:03:16] She is at a private school, and she's there on scholarship. She lives in a housing project, and a lot of the people at her school, the kids are just really unkind to her. And so we see this. Really crappy bully situation happening, and that early on, she's got all of that going on at school. Well, then she gets swept up into this, what was Quinton's summer camp, quote unquote summer camp.

[00:03:50] Mm-hmm. Opportunity. She gets swept up in that, and it turns out it is not at all a summer camp, but is instead this entire thing. A system that helps keep the magical world and the normal world at peace. And they recruit people early on. They take them in, they train them, and then ultimately those people become part of the.

[00:04:18] They become part of the employment of this system. And so it has a lot of vibes of some of the other fantasy stories that I've really loved. But I think that B.B. Alston does such a great job of incorporating a lot of socioeconomic and race issues into looking at this like a fantasy setup. And so I really love that because I think there's just this really nice.

[00:04:42] Exploration of inequities, both in our world and also in this sort of fantastical world, and how those look for a character. And we really see that happening for Amari, that she is having to. Defend her perspective all the time. She always feels like people are doubting her and think little of her, and that she has to, she has to prove herself in a way that other people do not.

[00:05:06] So it turns out that there's a legacy program with this system, and so a lot of the people are there on Legacy, and they have generations, and generations have been going there. She has this tiny little touch because Quinton was there, but he was extremely, extremely prestigious while he was there, and he and this other, his partner, both of them disappeared.

[00:05:32] And so there's all of this stuff that she finds out pretty quickly about how they kind of. Have an idea of where they are, but the program doesn't feel like they can, I mean, it's that it's essentially like they can't play with the bad guys in order to get them back. And so there's some of that happening where it's like, of course, Amari's.

[00:05:57] Primary concern is her brother, but the system and the whole infrastructure have a lot more at stake. And of course, they want him back. He, he and his partner, they call him VanQuish, is the combination of their names, and everybody wants to save them, but they also have to be careful not to give in to the demands of the, of the powerful.

[00:06:19] Evil part of the community. So I mean, it has a lot of the really classic tropes of fantasy that I absolutely love, but I think that it's a fresh take, and I'm really enjoying the way that the story's told. So again, that's Amari and the Night Brothers, and I think it's great so far.

[00:06:35] Jen: That sounds so good.

[00:06:35] Yeah, that sounds really good. I love the cover of that book. Yes. It's so beautiful. Every time I see it on Instagram,

[00:06:42] Ashley: That's what I'd heard, such great things about it, the print copy and that. The audio was great. And so that's what, when I saw that I could listen to it. I was. Ready to give it a try. So, Jen, what are you reading right now?

[00:06:54] Jen: So I have just started Stephen King's, Billy Summers, and I am just so happy to dive back into his storytelling. It's been a little while since I read a Stephen King book. I'm not sure why, but Billy Summers is about. An assassin for hire named Billy Summers, and we are in his head, so it's his perspective.

[00:07:14] He is going to do one last job before he retires, and so this is the story of his one last job. Basically. He is his very smart, very well-read man who, in order to be an effective assassin. Pretends to be not so smart. And so he has this persona that he puts on when he's dealing with the people who are hiring him and who are setting him up to do the jobs where he covers up the fact that he is really intelligent.

[00:07:47] And this one last job involves a guy who's setting up the job, his name's Nick, and he is super wealthy, very, he just lives in the best houses. No matter where he goes, even if he's just staying for the weekend, he's going to rent a super extravagant home. And as Billy's finding out about this job and deciding whether to accept it, he finds out that it's a kind of long-term job because the person he needs to assassinate is in California, but is going to be.

[00:08:20] Go through extradition and then be brought back to the Northeast. And in order to make this happen, Billy has to live in a home in a neighborhood long-term until he's brought back, and has to have a job that puts him in this. Building across from the courthouse where they're hoping this guy will be brought back on trial, and that's where he's going to kill him out the window of this building across from the courthouse.

[00:08:45] And his cover is that he is a writer, and Billy kind of is amused by this because he's always wanted to write, but. He is aware of how much talent it takes to be a writer, but he thinks this could be fun as a cover, and he decides that he's going to write a real-life story from the perspective of this persona that he puts on.

[00:09:09] That he's going to pretend to be less intelligent than he is as the narrator of his own story. But the story is Billy's, so it is all these layers. He started writing. So there's the book within a book, and we see Billy's childhood, and then, of course, we also see him dealing with all of these people.

[00:09:26] And getting set up to assassinate this person, he is keenly aware of the one last job sub-genre, where the one last job always goes wrong. And so Stephen King is just laying the groundwork. For things to go very awry. There's a character already that Billy is very suspicious of. He thinks that he's not gonna be able to keep his mouth shut.

[00:09:48] He owns the building where Billy is working as a writer. Yeah. So it's just really fun to see him play with this persona. You see how keenly intelligent he is and how he has such a good read on the people around him that he can play on their expectations of him. And watching him write this book is really a joy.

[00:10:10] So yeah, it, it's Stephen King is just such a confident storyteller, and he has such a distinctive style that it feel, feels like walking into something that I know what to expect. Even though I have no idea what's gonna happen in the plot, I know that it's gonna be great. So that is Stephen King's. Billy Summers.

[00:10:27] Sara: I've heard good things about that. I've never read a Stephen King book, though.

[00:10:32] Jen: Oh my gosh.

[00:10:32] Ashley: Oh wow.

[00:10:33] Jen: I just love him, and you know, he has all the horror, but he also is great at writing other things. I actually, this fall taught his book on writing again with my juniors, and his writing advice is so great, and you just see how much he loves storytelling and how grateful he is that he's been able to have

[00:10:53] that career, and yeah, so I just like his outlook on life too. I think he's just, yeah, I really like him and his writing. So, Sara, what are you reading?

[00:11:04] Sara: I am reading Maureen Johnson's Truly Devious, and I know Ashley read this a little bit ago and talked about it, and her book is Check in, so it is a YA mystery book.

[00:11:17] It is set. Two different timelines. One in the 1930s and one present day, and it's basically telling the story of these murders that occurred. Well, kidnappings and supposed murders. The people who were kidnapped were never found. So, no, it is kind of a mystery about what happened to them. And so it alternates in timeline, centering around Ingham Academy, which is this really famous private school.

[00:11:49] In the 1930s timeline, it has just started, and then in the present day timeline, kids are still going to this private school. And basically what you're reading is this unfurling of a mystery surrounding those, that kidnapping that happened in the thirties, which is still being investigated and focused on, and present day.

[00:12:12] I think it's really compelling. And I'm gonna really want to read the following books in the series, and I am really anxious to see how it ends. I'm not too, too far in, but I'm really enjoying it, and I can't wait to see where it goes. I love that one so much. Oh my goodness.

[00:12:31] Ashley: Yeah. I was happy to see that the rest of the series was out, so I am hoping to get back to those two. It's so fun.

[00:12:38] Sara: Whenever you can read for fun, whatever. Yeah. Okay. Now that we have talked about our, we'll just check in. We're going to get started on our discussion with Jean. Meltzers The Matzah Ball. And before we dive into the discussion, I just wanted to read a brief summary, or maybe not so brief, of what the publisher has given us.

[00:13:01] So this is a synopsis. Rachel Rubenstein-Goldblatt is a nice Jewish girl with a shameful secret. She loves Christmas. For a decade, she's hidden her career as a Christmas romance novelist from her family. Her talent has made her a bestseller, even as her chronic illness has always kept the kind of love she writes about out of reach.

[00:13:21] But when her diversity-conscious publisher insists she write a Hanukkah romance, her well of inspiration suddenly runs dry. Hanukkah's not magical. It's not Mary. It's not Christmas. Desperate not to lose her contract. Rachel's determination to find her muse at The Matzah Ball. A Jewish music celebration on the last night of Hanukkah.

[00:13:41] Even if, even if it means working with her summer camp Arch Enemy. Jacob Greenberg Though Rachel and Jacob haven't seen each other since they were kids, their grudge still glows brighter than a Menorah. But as they spend their time together, Rachel finds herself drawn to Hanukkah and Jacob in a way she never expected.

[00:14:02] Maybe this holiday of lights will be the sparks she needed to set her heart ablaze. I didn't realize how hallmarky the description was, but Yep. I can just hear like a voiceover and like the montage of Clipse. So that is our description. And let's get started. What were your overall impressions? Jen? Do you wanna start us off?

[00:14:29] Jen: Sure. I love this book so, so much. I had seen Liberty, hard, hardy, raving about it, and her recommendations are usually right on for me. And yeah, boy, did this, this was just perfect. And I will say I read a lot of holiday romances last year, more than I think I have ever read in my life before. Looking back, I was like, yeah, those are okay.

[00:14:52] This was great. I just, I was smiling on every page, and yet I thought it also had a great balance of a serious issue because Rachel is dealing with chronic fatigue syndrome, and I thought that Meltzer did such a good job balancing the joy. Of the holidays and of writing about the holidays and of this matzo ball, this big extravagant event with the serious nature of that chronic syndrome.

[00:15:28] And I'm sure we're gonna talk about that more later, but it just really worked for me. I thought I liked romances that have a mix of a serious topic alongside the froth of the romance. And so, yeah, I really love this one. What about you, Ashley? What did you think?

[00:15:44] Ashley: Yeah, ditto to a lot of that, Jen. I am still finding my way with romances, and I am normally not a fan of the holiday romance.

[00:15:54] Unfortunately. I always want to enjoy them, but I often find them a bit put on and a bit forced, and so even though I want to enjoy them, I sometimes find myself. Feeling snarky about them instead, and then disappointed that it didn't just get swept up in the joy. And I think that this one really does it, and it sweeps you up in the joy of Rachel's experience.

[00:16:18] And yet, exactly what you said, Jen, that Meltzer does such a great job. I've never. Forgetting what Rachel's struggle is like and the reality of that in every day for her, and why that would cause her to keep secret. And I thought all of that was really well done, too. I know we've talked before about how a lot of times romance is based on secret keeping, and that can be really off-putting in a story.

[00:16:41] But in this one, I think that we can believe that Rachel has a really strong reason both to keep her love of Christmas and her. Entire writing career related to that. A secret because she worries about her parents' reputation, she loves 'em so much, she respects their authority and importance in the community, with her father as the rabbi.

[00:17:06] And I thought that all of that made it believable that she would have this thing that shh was really true to her, but also that she couldn't find a way to reveal. And then similarly with her. Chronic fatigue syndrome, that she would have a reason to want to tell her employer about that, and that she rightfully, I believe, would, you know, worry that there would be these negative repercussions for her if they were to know.

[00:17:33] And so I felt like all of that really worked for me, and things that sometimes I find off-putting. Romances that I didn't, I wasn't bothered by them here because I felt like there was an authenticity to the reasons behind them. So yeah, overall it worked really well for me. And even this, there were parts that were definitely over the top.

[00:17:53] Yes. And I think all of that is purposeful and the story, but even those really didn't take me out of it because again, I was with her, you know, and I was with her in the journey and rooting for her. And so that made it really work for me. What about you, Sara? What was your overall impression?

[00:18:11] Sara: Same. I really enjoyed it.

[00:18:13] I mean, but you know, I am not a tough audience when it comes to a holiday story. I love to read high holiday books, but I did feel like both of you, like, I felt like this one had a little more depth, and I really thought that, especially Rachel and Jacob, that they had. A believable lifetime story, 'cause they knew each other as kids.

[00:18:34] They had like a little summer romance. And then, you know, I think all that stuff is really believable in the way that kids react to situations and, you know, they're not adults shat, that they think what? They take one little thing, and it blows out of proportion. And I thought too, like, as you said about Rachel, I thought Jacob, the reason that he.

[00:18:55] Had some issues. I think all of that was very believable. I mean, like his mom, you know, having a chronic illness and then also having breast cancer. I mean, I think all of that and the abandonment he felt from his father, I felt like all of that seemed very real and like the reason that he reacted the way in the relationship or in the back and forth with Rachel, the way that the reason he felt that way seemed really authentic to me.

[00:19:19] So I really like that. And like I said, I'm not a tough audience, but I thought this was a really smart, funny, and I really enjoy learning all about the Jewish faith and especially, I mean, I had no idea that Hanukkah was not that big of a holiday. Like that was one thing that I, 'cause, you know, as someone who celebrates Christmas, it kind of goes in the same general timeframe.

[00:19:42] Hanukkah is in the same general timeframe, and I, you know. I didn't realize that that was probably one of the lesser holidays for Jewish people. And so I thought that was all really fascinating, and I really liked learning about all the traditions, and I really admire the community. I love how everybody knows everyone, and I just really like that, like the, in that community.

[00:20:02] So I really, really, really enjoyed it. Okay. Well, I do feel like we did cover this a bit, but let's just pick out one thing. Specifically, something specific that worked for us.

[00:20:13] Ashley: Uh, Ashley, you wanna start us off? Sure. Yeah. So just to add on to what you were seeing, Sara, about Judaism and the exploration of the traditions that come with it.

[00:20:22] I think that the thing I, one of the things I loved the most was Toby, so this is Jacob's grandmother. But I think we come to see her as such an important part of just an elder in the community, who is, she's just amazing. She's an amazing person. So she's 91. She's still traveling the world everywhere, and I think.

[00:20:46] She also has a great sense of what matters and why, and I think there are a lot of times where she could have meddled in this situation that was playing out between Jacob and Rachel, and I think that. A younger or less wise person would have, and yet she let things play out as they needed to play out.

[00:21:08] And not that she didn't do any, I mean, she did get involved, but I felt like there were times that she could have been heavy-handed, stepped in and tried to redirect what was happening, but instead she let them feel what they needed to feel and. And didn't try to intervene. So she has this early on, and we see with her that she and Rachel have this encounter where Rachel does not realize that she is related to Jacob and Rachel.

[00:21:32] Spews a whole bunch of things that he has done wrong. And that was a time when she could have intervened and tried to speak on his behalf, and instead, she just let Rachel be upset and let that situation play out. And so then, you know, later, Rachel is embarrassed to see her because, of course, she realizes what happened.

[00:21:53] And again, we see Toby, who is just so gracious and so loving. Too supportive instead of like holding it against her or giving a very hard time even about it, she lets the whole thing go. You know, she doesn't make it apparent to Jacob what had happened. I mean, so I just thought, she is such an amazing character and I loved what we come to, what we came to understand about her story and her journey through the Holocaust, and I felt like.

[00:22:21] Again, I felt that that was such an authentic way to honor the suffering of the Jewish community related to the Holocaust, and to incorporate it into the present reality. In a way that was so true to the larger story, and so I loved that because I felt like it was not tacked on or overdone, and yet it enriched a character I already loved and showed the way that she understood the world and how she.

[00:22:51] Appreciated and loved her place in it. And I thought, oh, that was really beautiful. So that really worked for me. I just loved her character in all the ways it connected to both of them. So

[00:23:00] Jen: Yes, yes. I think the portrayal of parents is just great, 'cause I think Rachel's parents are too. It's not that there aren't issues there, but they are supportive and wonderful people.

[00:23:14] It very easily could have gone a different way that would've made it less nuanced. But I think Meltzer is really smart in building those family connections. And so the n even though Jacob's dad is horrible, and I would say one of the villains of the piece, it doesn't feel artificial because the other families are so realistic.

[00:23:32] And yeah, there are conflicts there, but they're. Not because they're bad people. Yeah.

[00:23:36] Ashley: Yeah. I especially love that with her parents. When we found out that, of cour,se they knew about her career, I, that to me was like the most beautiful moment with them, that they understood her so well, that they knew both, they accepted her choice, but they also understood that she had to come to a place where she was at peace with telling them instead of them.

[00:24:00] Telling her that they knew, I mean, again, secret keeping, but for the right reason in order to help someone be their best self, basically. And I thought that was really beautiful and just showed how well they understood her. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:24:12] Sara: I agree.

[00:24:13] Jen: Jen, what worked for you? So I really like. I don't think this is the typical example of a Second Chance romance, but it definitely was their second time around, even though the first time around was when they were 12, I think.

[00:24:25] And what I liked about that is I think so often. Those misunderstandings that make things end the first time. It's kind of like we've been saying all along that those can be told in a really grading way, or they can be told in a way that is authentic to the characters. And so I thought that those initial misunderstandings were so built into their personalities for Jacob, his fear of abandonment, and for Rachel, her super self-consciousness at being made fun of and doing the wrong thing.

[00:24:57] That it really worked, that that was what messed it up the first time, and that those qualities still imperiled their relationship the second time around. And so I thought, because those are parts of their identities that they had to work through, I really liked that. I liked those conversations surrounding what happens, the reveal of what each person's truth was the first time around, and when they find out what actually happened, I thought it was really smart.

[00:25:24] So yeah, I thought that trope was. Deployed in a very thoughtful way. Sara, how about you? What worked for you?

[00:25:31] Sara: I mean, a lot about this really worked, and I find this every time that we discuss a book. I think that it's going to be one thing, but then as we talk, I think of other things that just worked, and I just, the list starts getting longer and longer.

[00:25:45] I think for me, the portrayal, chronic illness was really powerful. I mean, because I think it's something you don't see a lot. It's just kinda like when Rachel was writing as Margot Cross, she wasn't going to, she was like, I don't write these hard things into my story. You know? And the fact that.

[00:26:06] Meltzer was able to portray this chronic illness, an invisible disease that you can't see on the outside, but that people struggle with. I really liked being part of this holiday story because, like that, it is the real thing, which is kind of more real-life. You know, people are struggling with things, and simultaneously, these are fun.

[00:26:29] Festive occasions are happening. And I really liked that. And I also liked what that plot point did for the character, like to help with character development for the other characters, like Mickey. I loved him. And then I loved the fact that Jacob did all these things once he found out, like the bedazzled wheelchair just was so precise, the stuff that he did made him more endearing.

[00:26:56] And I think that that. Plot point and the portrayal of that, really. And that he accepted that she had this illness, even though she appeared, she presented as someone who was able-bodied and fine, you know? But he accepted that and didn't ever question it. And the fact that she was so reluctant because other people had, I mean, I just thought all that was really, it's just more than you would expect from like a holiday read.

[00:27:22] And I just, I really liked that.

[00:27:25] Ashley: Yeah, I thought that discussion of the naming and how disempowering it was to Rachel was just so powerful. I thought it was really impactful because it just showed how. That name and this kind of, you know, the common name as opposed to the medical name, made her feel as if it was not a valid experience.

[00:27:46] Yeah. And because of that, this insecurity developed in her that she is determined to hide it. Because she feels like she'd rather hide it than defend it. And I think that was just a really powerful message that happened throughout the story. I don't know if y'all read this, the part at the end from the author's note, but I loved that.

[00:28:03] I loved everything she said, I loved it, so I feel like if you're out there reading this, make sure you read the author's note, because I just thought it just showed how thoughtful Meltzer was. She is experiencing what she's describing for Rachel. So even though this is very much. Rachel's story and not Jean Meltzer's story, and it is fiction.

[00:28:22] She is speaking to what she knows about this disease, but then talks about how, you know, how wide ranging it is and how, of course, her experience cannot speak for all people living with that illness. It cannot speak for all Jewish people. And she talks about her own experience with Judaism and how she tried to.

[00:28:40] Touch on these different things for these reasons. So I just loved that. I think that we see her intentions play out in this really beautifully woven story. I think we see it throughout, but then it's also that we see in the end that she is very intentional about that and shares it with her reading audience, which I thought was really cool.

[00:29:00] But back to what you were seeing, Sierra, I just felt like all of that was so well portrayed, and just like it goes back to the idea that it helped justify why Rachel was so. Secretive and so unwilling to trust that other people could have this knowledge and, and be, be thoughtful with it. Yeah.

[00:29:18] Jen: And that makes me feel bad that we have been calling it chronic fatigue syndrome when the name is Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, so we should probably just put that in there.

[00:29:29] Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That naming is important.

[00:29:31] Ashley: Right. And, I appreciated how she used both acronyms also, because that name is intimidating to say like a lot. I mean, like a lot of science. Naming is hard to retain for people to be able to refer to it easily. But I did think like even if you just change the acronym, that alone is more empowering than, you know, continuing to refer to it that way.

[00:29:53] And I mean, how, and she, I think it was in the author's note, right, where she talks about, she would write it down for the doctors, and then they wouldn't know, and she would have to say.

[00:30:03] Jen: Right.

[00:30:03] Ashley: She would have to refer to it by the common name that she hates in order for them to know what she was talking about.

[00:30:08] And so I think it goes back to the idea of the, the power of names. And I think, you know, she really, I. Emphasizes that throughout the book, but in a meaningful way that shows the impact on the individual experiencing it. So,

[00:30:21] SaraYeahah. All right. Now we're each gonna discuss one quote that we pulled from the text and talk about why we pulled it.

[00:30:30] Ashley, what is the quote that you wanted to share?

[00:30:34] Ashley: Sure. This is one from Mickey and Sara mentioned earlier what an amazing character he is, or maybe you did. And anyway, I know that we, we touched on this earlier, but he is such an, I loved the secondary character, so I loved Toby. I loved Mickey. I thought all of that worked really well and showed for her relationship with him.

[00:30:51] It shows how. Having an anchor was a lot of what kept her going when she first became ill, and so I thought that was really powerful. But the quote is actually from his moms, but he's saying it to Rachel. "The world is filled with angry and miserable people. Those people are never going to be happy for you.

[00:31:09] So you go out the, re and you live your truth. You be the person the universe asks you to be, and anyone who doesn't celebrate you for it, anyone who doesn't love you through it, screw him because we love you just the way you are." And I thought that was really, really beautiful. So we see that for h, I'm as he is coming out,t and worried about how other people might receive him.

[00:31:31] But then much, much later, he's sharing that with Rachel because that's exactly. Her concern, too, is that for very valid reasons, she has a preoccupation with what will happen if people know the truth about her career, and also if people know the truth about her illness. But we see in the story that she really needs those truths to come out for her to be free and to be able to be happy with her relationship.

[00:31:52] So I just thought that was really beautiful.

[00:31:55] Jen: Yeah. I love that he is such a good friend. I would love to read a book about him. Yeah. I don't know if that is coming, but I would absolutely read a book where he's a protagonist. Jen, what is your quote? So I chose one that is about the moment when Rachel and Jacob figure it out.

[00:32:11] What actually happened at the camp that caused them to end their relationship? And the quote is, it was funny how stories could change, not just the ones you told yourself, but the ones told about other people. And I just thought, that is so beautiful because I think we all, because of our vulnerabilities and our defense mechanisms, we tell stories about other people that help us understand our world.

[00:32:36] We get attached to them. So for Rachel, that event with Jacob had been really important to the way she saw herself, but it wasn't about her; it was about Jacob. And so then, as soon as she retold that story about Jacob, she saw herself in a different way. And so I think just the openness to revision of the way we see the world, and the openness to changing something that has been a central part.

[00:33:04] Of how we see the world appeared a lot through this book, in the way she saw herself, and in her need to hide her condition in the way they see each other. It's just like those little things are key, and that once they're unlocked, a lot of things open up for them. I love that in that moment, but also just as a theme of the book, Sara, what's your quotation?

[00:33:26] Sara: Mine is this exchang,e poured the beginning of the book between Mickey and Rachel and the quote that I pulled, it's like a whole chunk of text, but the quote that I've pulled is when Mickey is talking to Rachel and he says, "your entire frame of reference for the holiday comes from Hallmark movies in aisle six

[00:33:45] teen at Target," and I mean, it's, and then that I, I chuckled when I read that, but then I really like the way that that whole interaction really foreshadowed kind of the full circle moment at the end of the book when she realizes that she's having such a hard time writing a Hanukkah story, because that's her story and the reason that she

[00:34:09] likes to write the Christmas novel, but it's not real. And so, when Mickey's saying this at the beginning of the story about her frame of reference for Christmas, that she tells 'em in that moment, I don't want it to be real because like her Christmas writing started when she was first diagnosed with her illness or in the very early stages of her illness.

[00:34:30] And so I would just really like the way that that foreshadowed what was. It's gonna become a full circle moment for Rachel in the end, where she kind of realizes that she can write things that are real to her and that she doesn't have to be caught up in this Christmas kind of fantasy. And I, I just thought that was, again, like for a book that is, I mean, it's a rom-com, and it is a fun holiday story.

[00:34:54] I really thought it had a lot of depth, and I really liked that full circle moment. So that's fun. 

[00:35:01] Jen: That's great.

[00:35:02] Sara: I really, I have to say, the more that we talk about it, the more I just love this book. Yeah, yeah. Me too.

[00:35:07] Jen: Yeah, and you're right, it is really funny. Like we laughed when he, I, I mean, just the image of her in The Matzah Ball costume.

[00:35:14] Sara: Oh my gosh. Yes. Well, and that's. Seen at the end, which is very far out there, but the fact that she's running in the ball gown with her hair disheveled in fancy earrings and fuzzy socks and 3-year-old sneakers. Like in my mind, I can like see this as a movie. So I, yeah, absolutely. I just thought it was really funny and comical.

[00:35:33] Okay, so now we're gonna move on to our pairings. I'm excited to hear about your all's pairings for this one. So, Ashley, you want to tell us your pairing?

[00:35:43] Ashley: Sure. SI, this might be no surprise for people who listen often because I talk about this roommate series when, whenever I can, I love all parts of it, but I wanted to share Talia Hibbert's Get a Life, Chloe Brown, and I've talked about the Brown Sisters before.

[00:35:59] I've read all three of them. I think that. Similarly to what Jean Meltzer is able to do here. I think that Talia Hibbert explores really important issues. She talks about autism, she talks about chronic illness. She talks about a lot of different things that people have to navigate in society. And she does it in a way that still, she both addresses those as real, and you see it in really authentic ways, but you also see them as full people who are, she's very sex positive.

[00:36:32] She's very body positive. And so you're able to celebrate with these characters how amazing they are without ever. Discounting the hard parts of their lives. So with Chloe Brown, she's one of the three brown sisters, and this was the first in the series. It's also the first one I read where Chloe has fibromyalgia, and similarly to Rachel, she is chronically ill, and it has a lot of ups and downs for her, just like for Rachel, and also it affects her life and her career.

[00:37:04] Just like with Rachel, and she's very protective of that information, so I feel like there's just that, there are a lot of things that are different about it, but I think that that is the part that works really well in both of these is that you see Chloe Brown and why she, as a, as an adult has become.

[00:37:23] The way that she is, and yet you also understand why she's got to change. So just like the title suggests, her goal is to get a life; she has just, she has this. Yeah, the books are also hilarious. So they have that in common, too. You, there's just a lot of laugh-out-loud humor, but she has a near-death experience early on.

[00:37:47] That precipitates her kind of waking up and being like, Oh, I want to get these things in order. And she makes a list. She's very, she's very, all, all the brown sisters are very like, I'm going to do these things. I'm gonna make a plan. So Chloe makes a plan, and she decides that she is gonna do all of these things.

[00:38:05] She's never done well largely because of the way that her illness developed as she became an adult. And so she wants to do these different things, but. She is also inhibited by all the things that have, you know, that she's gotten comfortable living a manageable life. She has a job that she can do as she does.

[00:38:25] She's a web designer, so she can do that from her home. She's really just found a way to structure her life so that she's comfortable, but it has also built up some walls that are really hard for her to knock down. She has a very sexy handyman in the building whose name is Redford. He goes by red, and he is also an artist.

[00:38:49] She discovers, she discovers by spying on him, which I, there's a whole thing happening. But anyway, she kind of peaks in. Discovers that she can see him painting at night. And so he's this phenomenal artist, but is closeted in about his art, just like she is about her illness. And so she kind of sees him from afar, but it's similar to.

[00:39:15] Jacob and Rachel. I think we also see that red has a lot of back history that he's working through, too. And again, I just think all of that works in a very believable way on his side also. So he has some things he's working through that are very different from what Chloe's working through, but they make him closed off as well.

[00:39:31] And so we just see that development of the relationship and what that looks like. Similarly, the secondary characters are really great, and I think they work really well in the story. We see her sisters, who are awesome, but you just have a lot of, I like how both. Books deal with secondary characters. So we see that in this one, too.

[00:39:52] I will say, because we always reference those things with romances. This one is explicit. It's explicit in the language, it's explicit in the love scenes, and so that part is different. I'm all here for that. No problem for me. But Talia Hilbert is definitely an open-door romance. But otherwise, I think there are a lot of similarities as far as exploration of real people with real.

[00:40:16] And for Chloe, just like with Rachel, it's how to live with and share the experience of having a chronic illness. So again, that's Talia Hibbert's Get a Life, Chloe Brown.

[00:40:27] Sara: I still have not read those.

[00:40:29] Jen: Oh my gosh, Sara, you have got to read them.

[00:40:31] Ashley: They're so, I mean, they were still, I just love, I love all three of them so much and I mean that, I think Eve Brown is the third, and I think that one's actually my favorite, but all three of them, I just think, I think what I love is exactly that, that it's just so authentic.

[00:40:45] But also hilarious, and there are these really great romances that are, that are so positive and affirming for women. I think all of that works really well, so

[00:40:57] Sara: That's awesome. Jen, what is your pairing?

[00:41:00] Jen: Yeah, so I had a debate whether to do a holiday romance. Or another romance that dealt with an illness, a chronic illness.

[00:41:07] And so I went the same direction as Ashley. So I am recommending Sarah Adams' The Match. And in this one, the main character, Evie, works for Southern Service Paw, which matches. People with chronic illnesses with service dogs, and she became interested in it because when she was in her late teens, she was diagnosed with epilepsy.

[00:41:30] And the premise of the romance is that this little girl named Sam once had a service dog and has just been diagnosed with epilepsy. Her mom left her and her dad, I think, about a year ago. And so Sam is trying to convince her dad, Jacob, that a service animal is the right way to go, and he is so protective of his daughter that he does not trust that that will be enough to make him feel secure.

[00:42:03] So, since she was diagnosed, he basically has not let her out of his sight except to go to school. And Evie shares her own experience. She has a horribly, horribly just awful relationship with her parents. But after she was diagnosed, she was scared to leave their house, and she actually lived in their house for two years after her diagnosis, even though it is really a toxic environment, because she did not trust that she could be anywhere else and still be safe.

[00:42:32] And then she got her service dog, who is. It's weird to call a dog a secondary character, but he is so sweet in the book and you just see how that having a service dog has given her a sense of freedom in her life and the confidence that she can be alone in her home and be okay, or that she can go out in the world and be okay, and that she is so invested in giving that same sense of security to other people.

[00:43:01] And so there's a whole lot about class, and her parents are so bad as almost to caricature, so that's a whole subplot in the book that really doesn't have anything to do with the matzo ball. But I think that. Look at how important it is to have the feeling that you can go out in the world and be confident and be honest about who you are is common to both books.

[00:43:23] This one is also closed door, so if that was good for you in The Matzah Ball, I think this one is also closed door. Very, very sweet. I really like Jacob and Sam, and Evie's a great character. So yeah, that is Sarah Adams' The Match.

[00:43:38] Sara: Oh, no, I, I really wanna read, I'm sorry.

[00:43:40] Ashley: Yeah, that's what I was gonna, you, you know, between that description and the dog. I totally know that.

[00:43:45] Jen: Yeah. Well, it is set in Charleston. So, I love Charleston. This is my first Sarah Adams book, but that is apparently the setting of a lot of her romances. So I am hoping to read more. She's just, yeah, she's a great romance writer. So yeah. I hope y'all read it. I think you'd enjoy it.

[00:44:03] Sara, what's your pairing?

[00:44:05] Sara: So I also was struggling with whether I was going to go with a holiday read or something else, and I ultimately landed on Beth O'Leary's, The Switch. I have talked about this before, but this book is set in England. It is about. It is told an alternating perspectives. So the first perspective is Leena.

[00:44:28] She is a late 20-something workaholic. Who is? Basically, she breaks down in a meeting, in a presentation, and she's given, given a forced sabbatical by her boss for two months. Then the other character is Eileen. She is Leena's grandmother, and she is. Newly single and ready to mingle. And she, they make up, they decide that they're gonna switch apartments.

[00:45:00] So Eileen goes to London to stay in Leena's apartment, and Leena goes to a vi her village in Yorkshire, but like, it's more like in the country and stays at Eileen's home. So what I think is similar to The Matzah Ball is that you have this really. Feist,y ready to get out there and do whatever she wants80-something-year-oldld and you, she's just so endearing and wise, and kind, and so Eileen reminds me a lot of Toby and that they're both just.

[00:45:33] I mean, I like the portrayal that at an older age that it's not like your life has to stop or that you're gonna be sitting in your home. That they are single and ready to get out there and do whatever they want to do. So Toby's traveling the world. Eileen is trying dating apps and profiles, and I mean, I just really like that portrayal of when you get.

[00:45:58] Older. It doesn't mean you are just sitting around waiting for the end. I really like that. And so then also I felt, feel like Leena and Rachel have some things in common. Leena doesn't have a chronic illness, but she is a chronic workaholic, and it's a little bit like a sort of nervous breakdown in a meetin, and like kind of implodes and has to take a sabbatical.

[00:46:24] And they're both just really smart and, and the. There's romance with a man, and I mean, I just think it's, it's similar in tone and feel in that it's funny, but it also has some depth to it, and I just think they, they pair well together. And I do think if you like The Matzah Ball, you would like the switch.

[00:46:44] And the switch is excellent on audio. So that's another plus. So that is the Switch by Beth O'Leary.

[00:46:51] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. I love that, Sara. I still have not read that. Oh my gosh. I,

[00:46:56] Ashley: I think that they are, I think that's a great pairing. They complement each other really well. And, like also the connection to, for L,e it's grief, but it is like the connection between something that happened in the past that has.

[00:47:09] Deeply impacted you, and how that's affecting your present. There's a lot ofthatt, how, how those things have to be resolved in order to carry on. I think that part too. I think that's a great pairing.

[00:47:18] Sara: There's, uh, stuff about her relationship to her Leena's mom because of that grief in the past. 

[00:47:24] Even more for sure. Mm-hmm. Jen, you would love it, and it would probably only take you, like read three hours to read it. I mean, it's fairly short, and the way, as fast as you can read, it's so good.

[00:47:35] Jen: Yeah, I need to get to it soon. I haven't read any books by her yet, and she is an author that I have wanted to try forever.

[00:47:41] Sara: Oh, I really like the flat tier too. I like it'll, I will read anything she writes. I think

[00:47:47] Ashley: I will too. I haven't read her newest yet, but I do think she does. I mean, it's what we've talked to you about. Like she hits on some important things as far as depth, but also has this really light tone that's really fun to read.

[00:48:00] Sara: Before we wrap up our discussion, we wanna end with our bookish hearts. Jen, how many bookish hearts for you?

[00:48:07] Jen: Five. All the way. Love this one,

[00:48:10] Sara: Ashley?

[00:48:11] Jen: So true confession. Is that before I got on, I was going to say four. And the more we've discussed, the more I feel like it is a five for me, and I think it's because.

[00:48:20] I was leaning toward the four at first because there are some things that are really over the top, and for somebody who does not read romance all the time, that can be off-putting. So it was, there were parts that were funny, but there were some parts that I got a little frustrated, but I think that for all the reasons that we discussed that I would give it a five because I think that.

[00:48:39] It works super well, so I'm gonna bump up from my four. This discussion has made me round up to five. What? What about you, Sara? What's

[00:48:48] Sara: yours? Yes. I'm gonna go with five too, for this genre. I think it is. Excellent. So five. Hearts for me, too. All right, and let's just wrap up with you. Give me one, and this comes from Jody, one of our listeners who gave us some suggestions for Give me One Topics, and this one is one Earworm that plagues you.

[00:49:11] Ashley, what's your earworm?

[00:49:14] Ashley: I always have earworms. First of all, that is like, that seems like a weird thing to say. Anyway, I do, this is a problem that plagues me, but the one that I've had since the Olympics is the French national anthem. So. That has been a, that has been a weird one to get hung up on, but I have really gotten stuck on that,t and I think it started from the Olympics, and then it just keeps coming back around.

[00:49:41] And I studied French in school, so you know, we had to, I listened to it a lot and we had to sing it probably in front of people. I've. Feel I have some vague embarrassment feelings left over. But anyway, that one's been stuck with me for a while now.

[00:49:54] Sara: So, Jen, what is yours?

[00:49:59] Jen: So I got them two, but I had a hard time putting my finger on one.

[00:50:02] One of my students said something the other day that made me have one, and I cannot remember what it was. But anyway, when we were chatting about it beforehand, Ashley was listing some off, and she said The Lego Movie. And immediately, ever since. We started recording. Everything is awesome, has been cycling through my brain.

[00:50:18] You're welcome, friends. And that is one. Oh my gosh. I mean. That is one that it'll probably be days now. You're welcome. At least I like it. It's not the worst earworm you can get. So

[00:50:29] Ashley: It is, uh, I mean, yeah, that one really sticks with you, and they emphasize it a lot in the film. So as part of it too is that you hear it so often in it, but man, that one.

[00:50:40] Yeah. It could be days for you. It could be weeks. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry for that.

[00:50:44] Jen: That's okay. There are worse. There are worse Earworms I could have cycling through my head right now. Sara, how about you?

[00:50:50] Sara: I also get earworms. I do have trouble remembering thee, but it's just like if I hear a snippet of something, then that's something that will run through my head all day.

[00:50:59] But one that always plagues me if I hear it. And we recently had a, like, a trial subscription and a new vehicle of SiriusXM. So I listened to a lot of like eighties, nineties, and early two thousands because they have the genre or the decade stations. And the one that plagued me was Barbie Girl by Aqua.

[00:51:20] Oh, I guess I hate that song, but if I hear it, then the chorus is running through my head, and I'm singing it, and I'm very upset about this. Gimme one. I just wanna say, because I had to say that out loud, and now probably the rest of the, but that one is mine. Sometimes I don't mind them, but a lot of times I do, and that's one that now it will now be in my head for the rest of the day.

[00:51:49] Ashley: So I just need to leave y'all with one more. And we were, we were walking down the street here in Madrid the other day, and Cotton I, Joe was on. Oh yes. And it was like, it felt like being transported to a different time period. You know, it's just like that moment where you hear the thing, and all of a sudden it's a totally different time.

[00:52:07] It was like that, it was a really. It was really interesting. So yeah, that one's a pretty sticky one too.

[00:52:12] Sara: Yes. Yep. Alright, well, so now, now, listeners, you all have all of these earworms to choose from.

[00:52:21] We are sorry. Well, thank you all for listening, and don't forget about our ambassadors program. And we can't wait to hear what you think of The Matzah Ball, and also any other.

[00:52:32] Holiday reads that you are reading this month. We'd love to know those. Thank you for listening.

[00:52:41] Jen: Do you have comments or opinions about what you heard today? We'd love to hear them. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @unabridgedpod or on the web at unabridgedpod.com. To support us in getting more involved, you can sign up for our newsletter. Join a Buddy Read or become an ambassador.

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